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Thread: Argentina collapsing

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    Argentina collapsing

    Testosterone Pit - Home - What the Hell Just Happened in*Córdoba?

    Basically police went on strike. The population at large decided to go on a looting spree. Its' sort of interesting really. By morning people went on roofs to defend themselves with guns almost like the zombie apocalypse.

    Videos on that thread which is neat.
    Argentina Raises Tax on Foreign Credit Card Purchases to 35 Percent
    The government raised the tax charged on credit card purchases in foreign currency to 35 percent from 20 percent, according to a resolution published today in the Official Gazette.

    Argentina’s dollar reserves have plunged 29 percent this year to $30.9 billion as the government uses the funds to pay international debt and import energy, while Argentines take advantage of a strong official rate for the peso to spend abroad. The tax increase raises the implicit exchange rate on foreign purchases to 8.3 pesos to the dollar from 7.4. The official rate is 6.2 pesos, while the black market rate is 9.2.
    Originally from Sochi, Russia.

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    Senior Contributor DonBelt's Avatar
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    I hope they don't respond by going after the Falklands/Malvinas again. I know this came up in an earlier thread about renewed demands over the islands but it seemed to have quieted down. But if things are going downhill in Buenos Aries maybe a distraction becomes more attractive?

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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonBelt View Post
    I hope they don't respond by going after the Falklands/Malvinas again. I know this came up in an earlier thread about renewed demands over the islands but it seemed to have quieted down. But if things are going downhill in Buenos Aries maybe a distraction becomes more attractive?
    They couldn't if they wanted to. Their navy is a joke & there are still fighters operational in their airforce that flew in the Falklands war. Put simply, the Argentinean military has been in steep decline for 30 years - partly the price for their hubris & brutal dictatorship. The UK has 4 typhoons, a bristling air defence & some Royal Marines on the islands. Probably not enough to defend against a determined attempt to invade, but enough to defend until more troops & aircraft can be flown in.

    The British military is also packed full of people with combat experience & who regularly exercise at a level of skill I doubt the Argentinean military could muster on a very good day.

    The thing to worry about here is the nation descending further into chaos & a bunch of Argentineans dying. The Falklands will be fine.


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    Not to mention that the new spanking new Type 45 destroyers and submarines would make mincemeat out of any attacking Argie force.

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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Not to mention that the new spanking new Type 45 destroyers and submarines would make mincemeat out of any attacking Argie force.
    A little research turns up that virtually the entire Argentinean combat surface fleet is stuck in port due to poor maintenance, lack of training, lack of spares & even lack of ordnance. They have 3 subs, the youngest of which is coming up on 26 years old (the oldest is over 40). The airforce has a half dozen SU-29s, 18 Mirage D1s & 8 Mirage IIIs (Australia retired these things in the early 80s). The Argentinean military more closely resembles a museum than a fighting force.

    The UK wouldn't even need to send the Type-45s & subs, just send some frigates & let the Typhoons chew up the rest.


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    Senior Contributor DonBelt's Avatar
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    I know their Naval Air Arm is forced to qualify and practice on Brazil's aircraft carrier and the occasional American carrier.

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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonBelt View Post
    I know their Naval Air Arm is forced to qualify and practice on Brazil's aircraft carrier and the occasional American carrier.
    Given that they only have 8 super etendards & not all of them are airworthy I don't imagine that takes all that much time these days. Also pretty pointless in a nation that can't afford to pay any of its bills & has had one naval vessel seized in a foreign port by creditors. Their military is a joke.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Given that they only have 8 super etendards & not all of them are airworthy I don't imagine that takes all that much time these days. Also pretty pointless in a nation that can't afford to pay any of its bills & has had one naval vessel seized in a foreign port by creditors. Their military is a joke.
    Aside from the Falklands, Argentina doesn't really have any scenarios where the military would be utilized effectively against an external threat. The internal threats can be handle by the police and due to its history, paramilitary has lost their flavor and the military is viewed with great suspicion.

    You know, it's funny... If Britain really wants to bring peace to South America, it could have given up Falklands and the Argentinian people doesn't have a reason for the military. That will translate into Chile into relaxing their military posture and Brazil could forgo any military expenditures to its south. That way, Britain can save serious money on not having to protect an island with only 7,000 inhabitants 8,000 miles away.

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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Aside from the Falklands, Argentina doesn't really have any scenarios where the military would be utilized effectively against an external threat. The internal threats can be handle by the police and due to its history, paramilitary has lost their flavor and the military is viewed with great suspicion.

    You know, it's funny... If Britain really wants to bring peace to South America, it could have given up Falklands and the Argentinian people doesn't have a reason for the military. That will translate into Chile into relaxing their military posture and Brazil could forgo any military expenditures to its south. That way, Britain can save serious money on not having to protect an island with only 7,000 inhabitants 8,000 miles away.
    OR

    Those nations could just work things out among themselves & leave those 7000 Britons alone. The islands are British. The people who live there are British. Argentina just needs to grow the fuck up and focus on becoming a functional nation - something it has singularly failed to do for generations. The Falklands are doing just fine without Argentina. No reason for that to change.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    OR

    Those nations could just work things out among themselves & leave those 7000 Britons alone. The islands are British. The people who live there are British. Argentina just needs to grow the fuck up and focus on becoming a functional nation - something it has singularly failed to do for generations. The Falklands are doing just fine without Argentina. No reason for that to change.
    Not defending Argentina but.....

    OR the people on those islands can be a lot less obstinate and be more open to the people of Argentina instead of closing its borders to them especially when they are so close to Argentina and 8000 miles away from Britain.

    The only reason why those islands were British in the first place is because they kept out everybody out and kicked out the people who used to live there. By the way, I was wrong about the number of people living on the island. It is nearly 3,000 people.

    But anyway, it doesn't matter in the long run, because with such a small population, it will not survive an epidemic attack or a large scale disaster. Besides the island is such a remote area that nobody in their right mind would want to live there.

    I suspect that Argentina is not comfortable with Falklands being used as a military base so close to their land. So maybe if Britain can declare that it would not use the island as a military base and open the island to seasonal visitors and trade from Argentina and some settlers, I am sure that the tensions would be alleviated.

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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Not defending Argentina but.....
    .....you are taking their side in the argument.

    OR the people on those islands can be a lot less obstinate and be more open to the people of Argentina instead of closing its borders to them especially when they are so close to Argentina and 8000 miles away from Britain.
    They used to be....until they were invaded. There were quite close links between the Falklands & the mainland before the war. Argentina broke that trust & has made little effort to rebuild it, yet you seem to put all the onus on a tiny, isolated population to do the reconciling. BTW, Argentineans are allowed to visit the islands.

    The only reason why those islands were British in the first place is because they kept out everybody out and kicked out the people who used to live there.
    There were next to no permenant residents there when the British established their colony & their fate is unclear depending on who you ask. As to 'keeping everybody else out', that is pretty much what you do with territory you own. I look forward to an 'open door' policy on the Andaman & Nicobar islands. I'm sure the Rohynga would like a new home. They are more proximate that 99.9% of Indians.

    By the way, I was wrong about the number of people living on the island. It is nearly 3,000 people.
    Doesn't matter how many, just whose nation they want to be a part of. Apparently they prefer a functional, democratic first world nation over a shambolic third world nation with a history of dictatorship. Why is this bad again?

    But anyway, it doesn't matter in the long run, because with such a small population, it will not survive an epidemic attack or a large scale disaster.
    They've managed for almost 2 centuries. I'll back their experience against your opinions. I suspect the oil that will start flowing ion a few years will make the place even more resilient.

    Besides the island is such a remote area that nobody in their right mind would want to live there.
    Exchange 'remote' for 'hot', 'humid' or 'hellishly underdeveloped' & you describe most of India to an outsider. I doubt the islanders are any more interested in your judgement of their home than you would be in theirs of yours.

    I suspect that Argentina is not comfortable with Falklands being used as a military base so close to their land. So maybe if Britain can declare that it would not use the island as a military base and open the island to seasonal visitors and trade from Argentina and some settlers, I am sure that the tensions would be alleviated.
    You have got to be shitting me. The ONLY reason for the military base is that last time they left the islands undefended Argentina invaded them. The base is purely defensive. The forces there are tiny - about 1000 soldiers, 4 typhoons, 2 helicopters & a destroyer - and they are a LONG way from Argentina. The last time Argentineans were allowed as regular visitors they used the opportunity to undermine British sovereignty & scout for an invasion, yet Britain does allow Argentinean visitors. As for trade, Argentina is the one playing stupid games.

    It is frankly bizarre that you want Britain to allow settlers from a nation that claims the islands, invaded British territory to take them and has maintained a bellicose attitude ever since. If someone came on here suggesting that India allow Chinese settlers into some of its northern regions to 'ease tensions' you would scream the house down.

    If you take of your anti-British blinkers for 5 seconds you might see that Argentina has created this problem all by itself. Before the invasion Britain was ambivalent about the status of the islands & was prepared to engage in discussions on their long term status over the objections of the residents. There was free movement of people & I suspect Argentineans could buy land - yet none of this 'eased tensions'. Had the military dictatorship not been so desperate for a 'short victorious war' Argentina might be on the path to owning them. Instead a bunch of people got killed for zero reason and Argentina poisoned the well for generations. Now Britain has decided to honour the wishes of the residents and defend its sovereign territory, as is its right. Argentina has a problem. Britain does not. Argentina needs to find a peaceful way to solve it. Thus far there is no sign that is likely - just lots of rhetoric & tantrums.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    A little research turns up that virtually the entire Argentinean combat surface fleet is stuck in port due to poor maintenance, lack of training, lack of spares & even lack of ordnance. They have 3 subs, the youngest of which is coming up on 26 years old (the oldest is over 40). The airforce has a half dozen SU-29s, 18 Mirage D1s & 8 Mirage IIIs (Australia retired these things in the early 80s). The Argentinean military more closely resembles a museum than a fighting force.

    The UK wouldn't even need to send the Type-45s & subs, just send some frigates & let the Typhoons chew up the rest.
    What do the airforce do with the Su-29s? Trainers? Aerobatics team? Enter the redbull air-race? Anybody know?

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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Boat View Post
    What do the airforce do with the Su-29s? Trainers? Aerobatics team? Enter the redbull air-race? Anybody know?
    Listed as aerobatics team. Not sure what their status is as potential combat aircraft, but given what poor shape everything else is in, probably not great.


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    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    A new record. Thread hijacked on the 2nd post.


    Here we have a complete breakdown in social order, or probably already broken down. The police strike isn't the only reason. Something else is at work here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAD_333 View Post
    A new record. Thread hijacked on the 2nd post.


    Here we have a complete breakdown in social order, or probably already broken down. The police strike isn't the only reason. Something else is at work here.
    The economy has been a mess for a while. The political system is borderline dysfunctional & the government, while democratic, has a tendency to stand over media outlets that disagree with it. In fact, the government refuses to publish reliable figures on the economy & I think may even have made it illegal for others to try to do so. Official inflation is probably less than half the actual rate (in reality over 20%). The police standing down has simply let people vent their frustrations. This isn't a complete shock.

    If Kirchner resigns or is forced out as a result of this it might actually be a positive, but the former course seems unlikely. She is too bloody minded for that. Perhaps others in her party will find a way to oust her.


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