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Japan, U.S. at Odds Over China's Air Zone

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
    So China has unilaterally decided to make a previously safe piece of airspace 'unsafe' for any aircraft crossing it unless they do as China says. Thanks for confirming that.
    The safe option would be to submit data as requested by the chinese. What the Japanese govt is doing is forcing their carriers to operate unsafely which even the US has advised against.

    This would suggest that the US don't see this ADIZ as that big a deal and are only keeping up appearances for their Japanese ally.

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    • #62
      Funny, US, SK, and Japanese military aircrafts are flaunting their presence in the ADIZ.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        Funny, US, SK, and Japanese military aircrafts are flaunting their presence in the ADIZ.
        That was to be expected given the level of competition and mistrust between china and america et al. They were flying through the region without informing the chinese before.

        Despite all this, the ADIZ is still there and slowly gaining legitimacy. The american added to this legitimacy by advising their commercial carriers to comply.

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        • #64
          They're also flying B-52s through it daring the China AF to intercept.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by winton View Post
            The safe option would be to submit data as requested by the chinese. What the Japanese govt is doing is forcing their carriers to operate unsafely which even the US has advised against.

            This would suggest that the US don't see this ADIZ as that big a deal and are only keeping up appearances for their Japanese ally.
            The safe option would have been for China not to unilaterally decide to start threatening aircraft transiting a particular area. The safe option would be for China to remove the threat. It didn't exist a few short weeks ago. There is no reason for it to exist now.
            sigpic

            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              They're also flying B-52s through it daring the China AF to intercept.
              That in itself is unremarkable. The chinese have been flying their own bombers through Japanese ADIZ and right over the islands even. The americans did that early on to reassure their jittery Japanese ally.

              The japanese have been run ragged intercepting the chinese.

              However the US, japan respond militarily, its a geopolitical win for the chinese.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                The safe option would have been for China not to unilaterally decide to start threatening aircraft transiting a particular area. The safe option would be for China to remove the threat. It didn't exist a few short weeks ago. There is no reason for it to exist now.
                And forgo the geopolitical win? Come on. Put yourself in their shoes. They are already enjoying the benefits of this ADIZ. Its a net gain for them

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by winton View Post
                  That in itself is unremarkable. The chinese have been flying their own bombers through Japanese ADIZ and right over the islands even.
                  And they were intercepted and escorted.

                  Originally posted by winton View Post
                  The americans did that early on to reassure their jittery Japanese ally.
                  From here, they were incapable of doing squat.

                  Originally posted by winton View Post
                  The japanese have been run ragged intercepting the chinese.
                  Try again. The Japanese have better loiter time ... and they are intercepting the Chinese. The Chinese are intecepting no one. It's a friggin bluff.

                  Originally posted by winton View Post
                  However the US, japan respond militarily, its a geopolitical win for the chinese.
                  Says you. The military are the ones the Chinese needs to identify. They're the ones flaunting Chinese incapabilities.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    And they were intercepted and escorted.
                    They left on their own terms.

                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    From here, they were incapable of doing squat.
                    Like the japanese interceptors.

                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    Try again. The Japanese have better loiter time ... and they are intercepting the Chinese. The Chinese are intecepting no one. It's a friggin bluff.
                    Thats contrary to news reports.
                    China warplanes patrol new ADIZ | The Japan Times

                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    Says you. The military are the ones the Chinese needs to identify.
                    says this article
                    Why China considers its new air zone a success - The Globe and Mail

                    The chinese will have an easier time Iding military with all those commercial flights providing data which is the bulk of the traffic.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by winton View Post
                      That was to be expected given the level of competition and mistrust between china and america et al. They were flying through the region without informing the chinese before.
                      Your premise is all wrong. The US flies military planes through the area without informing the Chinese because it has always done so. Trust has nothing to do with it.


                      Despite all this, the ADIZ is still there and slowly gaining legitimacy.
                      That suggests it wasn't legitimate to start with.


                      The american added to this legitimacy by advising their commercial carriers to comply.
                      The advisory came from the FAA and CAA for the safety of commercial flights. The White House accepted it. That's not legitimizing the ADIZ, just recognizing the danger for airline passengers.
                      To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                        Your premise is all wrong. The US flies military planes through the area without informing the Chinese because it has always done so. Trust has nothing to do with it.
                        I agree with the previously not informing part, I stated that. Trust is just part of the mood.

                        Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                        That suggests it wasn't legitimate to start with.
                        declaring ADIZ never is to start of with. Did china initially recognize American/Japanese ADIZ. They have come to live with it.


                        Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                        The advisory came from the FAA and CAA for the safety of commercial flights. The White House accepted it. That's not legitimizing the ADIZ, just recognizing the danger for airline passengers.
                        Unfortunately, it does, which is why the Japanese are so against it. It leads to other nations supplying data like SK are doing.

                        Lawfare › The Foreign Policy Essay: Oriana Skylar Mastro on “China

                        This is an interesting article.

                        the choice to fly “antiquated” B-52s without weapons is interpreted as recognition of China’s ADIZ and lack of U.S. resolve. As one independent military analyst wrote on a more reputable website, “thank you U.S. for confirming China’s ADIZ.” Under this backdrop, Beijing may hope the U.S. will pressure Japan to back down or, at the very least, that the ADIZ will create tension between the two allies as they debate and disagree on the best way to respond.

                        The way I see it, china has everything to gain and nothing to lose with this ADIZ.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by winton View Post
                          They left on their own terms.
                          It's friggin international airspace. You're allowed to fly through it.

                          Originally posted by winton View Post
                          Like the japanese interceptors.
                          They were intercepted and escorted. Neither side is allowed to shoot.

                          Originally posted by winton View Post
                          Thats contrary to news reports.
                          All talk.

                          Originally posted by winton View Post
                          says this article
                          Why China considers its new air zone a success - The Globe and Mail

                          The chinese will have an easier time Iding military with all those commercial flights providing data which is the bulk of the traffic.
                          Yeah, sure. Those two B-52s weren't even seen until Washington announced it.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by winton View Post
                            Newer article contradicts yours.

                            China

                            Japan’s planes have continued their normal patrol flights in the East China Sea without any observable reaction from China .

                            Got anything up to date on actual intercepts?
                            To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by winton View Post
                              Unfortunately, it does, which is why the Japanese are so against it. It leads to other nations supplying data like SK are doing.
                              I disagree. Prudence for safety's sake does not legitimize. The US will never recognize the legitimacy of the ADIZ while it covers disputed territory.



                              The way I see it, china has everything to gain and nothing to lose with this ADIZ.
                              Good relations with its neighbors and other countries? Peace in an area where tensions have been low for years?



                              Why doesn't China respect Japan's ADIZ?


                              Why does China put more tracking requirements on aircraft in its ADIZ than other countries? It is still international airspace.
                              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                                The US will never recognize the legitimacy of the ADIZ while it covers disputed territory.

                                Why doesn't China respect Japan's ADIZ?
                                You just answered your own question before asking.

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