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Thread: What if: GPS and all Western satellites are successfully neutralised

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    yes but the doctrines that came after the end of the cold war and was predicated on precision bombing and RMA in communications are now useless. Your armies today would have to go back and relearn all the lessons learned in the cold war and start engaging in very expensive restocking cold war technology armaments.
    You do what armies have done for 1000s of years. You rely on local knowledge. Those units who got locals guiding them were a hell of a lot faster than those relying on map and compass back in days of old ... and I suspect faster than GPS.

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    We still teach, and use map and compass and land navigation.
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    yes but the doctrines that came after the end of the cold war and was predicated on precision bombing and RMA in communications are now useless. Your armies today would have to go back and relearn all the lessons learned in the cold war and start engaging in very expensive restocking cold war technology armaments.
    Not necessarily so.

    Militaries adapt - eg Galula, Petraeus, Nagle, McMaster, Sepp, Kilkullen etc adapted and leaned from prev soldiers in prev wars such as Lawrence, Templar, Larteguy

    In fact if you read Kaplans "The Insurgents" he gives an example of how precision weapons delivery was able to be made for efficient in small wars as well as set piece (cold war) models. Donkey to shooter times of less than 19mins were achieved - 5 years earlier they were 3hrs - today they're shorter again.

    Tech doesn't become redundant - it can be used in different ways, so nothing gets abandoned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    You do what armies have done for 1000s of years. You rely on local knowledge. Those units who got locals guiding them were a hell of a lot faster than those relying on map and compass back in days of old ... and I suspect faster than GPS.
    Is that why the Green Berets used Montagnard scouts in Vietnam?
    "There is never enough time to do or say all the things that we would wish. The thing is to try to do as much as you can in the time that you have. Remember Scrooge, time is short, and suddenly, you're not there any more." -Ghost of Christmas Present, Scrooge

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    Is that why the Green Berets used Montagnard scouts in Vietnam?
    The function of the Green Berets is not to fight an insurgency. They are there to train indigenous forces to fight an insurgency. So I guess one might as easily say that the Montagnards were using them as much as the other way around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stitch View Post
    Is that why the Green Berets used Montagnard scouts in Vietnam?
    The AATTV used them because they loathed the VC with a passion.

    Look up CAPT Barry Petersen. He's regarded as the model for Col Kurtz in Apocalypse Now

    basic info:

    Australian Army Training Team Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by gf0012-aust; 28 Nov 13, at 01:49. Reason: typo - corrected title

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    We still teach, and use map and compass and land navigation.
    But how often do you practice them in the field exercises?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    yes but the doctrines that came after the end of the cold war and was predicated on precision bombing and RMA in communications are now useless. Your armies today would have to go back and relearn all the lessons learned in the cold war and start engaging in very expensive restocking cold war technology armaments.
    can't speak for the US, but for us its still core training.

    craft is about core skills, basic skills, and being able to fight without your tech advances.

    Its pretty apparent that red team will do the same as you, ie try to render you blind, deaf and dumb so that you're fighting in an information vacuum - so you train to be able to still fight on your terms without the tech if need be.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    But how often do you practice them in the field exercises?
    Engineers still use maps. It's a bitch trying to carry a 36 inch screen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Engineers still use maps. It's a bitch trying to carry a 36 inch screen.
    What will US Corps of Engineers carry?
    Pentagon agency creating digital map of the world
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    Something based on graphene. Samsung patents graphene networks for touch screens - Graphene Tracker

    But it will still be foldable,like a paper map.The best of both worlds.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    I wonder what happen if some organisation successfully disable the cyber space backbone of a nation for a single month both satellite link and physical cables, monetary system depends too much on cyber technology. no connectivity means people will run out of money very soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by payeng View Post
    I wonder what happen if some organisation successfully disable the cyber space backbone of a nation for a single month both satellite link and physical cables, monetary system depends too much on cyber technology. no connectivity means people will run out of money very soon.
    Nothing special or new.Emergency state or martial law.Food,water and medicine distributed on a need to have basis.You object too much or you think you have the right to loot,you die.
    But that's an unlikely scenario.The networks and databases aren't as vulnerable as they seem.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    You know, there is an OPLAN or CONPLAN on the shelf in the Pentagon for every eventuality. "Fidel dies and Cuba folds like a cheap camera?" There's a plan for that. They are written by the geographic or functional commanders, reviewed by the Joint Staff and the services, and approved by SECDEF. We take them out every two years to review and update them. For example, I read the version of the OPLAN for Iraq twice in three years. As you all know, it didn't go as planned, but that's why we have branches and sequels. The point of all this is that there are bright young minds who are paid to think of all of these horrible but nonetheless interesting scenarios and then write a plan for dealing with it. We even war game them in exercises like "Top Off" and "Eligible Receiver" with a different set of circumstances every year. You thought 9/11 was bad? Just think how bad it would have been had we not run that one past the supported command, the services, the FBI, etc., only a year or two before. Not the same scenario, but a mass terrorist attack on the homeland nonetheless, only in multiple cities. No response is perfect, and that certainly wasn't but it could have been a lot worse. We don't leave a whole lot to chance.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by payeng View Post
    I wonder what happen if some organisation successfully disable the cyber space backbone of a nation for a single month both satellite link and physical cables, monetary system depends too much on cyber technology. no connectivity means people will run out of money very soon.
    Happened twice already. Two organization hit us and hit us bad.

    Ice Storm 98 by Mother Nature
    Black Out 2003 by Bad Luck

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