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U.S. Directly Challenges China's Air Defense Zone : B52 flies over

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  • #46
    Japanese airlines stop obeying China`s air zone rules

    Criticism of China's ADIZ increases; Japanese airlines do a policy U-turn | The Japan Times


    "After the Japanese government said private airlines don't have to follow Beijing's claims on Tuesday, our industry body held a meeting on Tuesday and decided we won't follow" Beijing's demands any more, a spokesman for former flag carrier Japan Airlines said.

    "JAL has stopped submitting flight plans since 0000 am today (1500 GMT yesterday)," he said.

    JAL's rival All Nippon Airways also said it has stopped complying.

    "The Scheduled Airlines Association of Japan, an aviation industry body, made the decision after it received assurances from China, through the Japanese foreign ministry, that Beijing has no intention of obstructing the flights of commercial airline carriers," the JAL spokesman said.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      GF, are you serious? We both have veterans from the Battle of Hong Kong demanding compensation. Never mind the Comfort Women issue which I find the most disturbing of all. The Japanese raped their grandmothers. You actually think Koreans and Chinese are going to forget?
      The avenge was taken by USA by nuking Japan not once but twice.

      The same way world will not allow anyone to expand, it won't allow China or Koreans to avenge, that has already been avenged. It is a new game, new fight, new rules. I am shaken to read that you will tag this dispute with what happened during WW2.
      Last edited by ambidex; 27 Nov 13,, 10:26. Reason: grammer

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      • #48
        Japanese arent alone on this, Koreans and Vietnamese , others are all very intelligent people, who knows the real long term threat. Unlike chinese zombie population the rest of new generation east asians dont think the same way as the chinese or like the people of chinese from other lands

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          The point is that both the Chinese and the Korean populace (and the Taiwanese) are looking for a fight ... and the Japanese populace just gave it to them.
          What did they expect, the Japanese to roll over? Chinese will not be able to handle the Japanese or its clout. Simple.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post

            They're also keen to start selling military capability to friends - and there's no shortage of countries wanting to buy into some of the japanese military capability and advances (space, digital systems, acoustics, manuf efficiencies, integration opportunities). eg the Virginais are considered the cream of contemp ship building progs and are based on an assessment of japanese production methods - quite a few countries haves been keen to get engaged with them since their attitude to prev navel gazing has changed.
            India is taking full advantage of the situation, So is the Japanese in changing the domestic attitude towards defence policy.


            India has reportedly clarified that it is reviewing the Special Chemicals, Organisms, Materials, Equipment and Technologies (SCOMET), thereby placing the Shinmaywa US-2i as a dual civilian-and-military item. India has accepted the high cost of the aircraft to build up the strategic partnership.
            India to acquire 15 US-2i aircraft from Japan after defence minister’s visit - Financial Express

            India has two projects Japan can work with, the LHD/LPD and Project 75 I for the second line SSK.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post
              agreed, but forcing down a civilian jet will have just as much negative impact -
              I don't think thats going to happen. I believe like you that there will be other screws that will be turned to induce compliance.

              This whole excercise must be to broaden limits as well, as the Chinese govt can also ignore other countries ADIZs.

              Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post
              one of the reasons why countries are looking at production/manufacturing in africa or to more stable governments (ie governance) like India.
              If that is the case, then they are obviously following chinas lead in Africa. However, why do you think India has a stable govt? Its dysfunctional and ineffective.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by winton View Post
                I don't think thats going to happen. I believe like you that there will be other screws that will be turned to induce compliance.

                This whole excercise must be to broaden limits as well, as the Chinese govt can also ignore other countries ADIZs.

                China did not annouce the Air Defense Id Zone as Anti- Japanese one, They announced it as for every aircraft flying in and out of there. So lets not try 'save face' when that face has been clearly been lost by the US and Japanese actions, the same is being followed by the Koreans.

                If that is the case, then they are obviously following chinas lead in Africa. However, why do you think India has a stable govt? Its dysfunctional and ineffective.

                We have a better Government, than China simply because I am free unlike a Chinese zombie. If you mean by progress the trampling of citizen rights by a corrupt politburo then the Indians will have non of it. We call out the corrupt and we prosecute them, you cant even touch them, unless ofcourse they fight among each other. More companies prefer to have their manufacturing done in countries with democracy and human rights.
                Last edited by Defcon5; 27 Nov 13,, 12:06.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                  The same way world will not allow anyone to expand, it won't allow China or Koreans to avenge, that has already been avenged. It is a new game, new fight, new rules. I am shaken to read that you will tag this dispute with what happened during WW2.
                  You and the Pakistanis have not forgotten separation. Why would NE Asians be any different? Koreans bought over to Japan as slaves during WWII are still not allow citizenship. The hatre goes both ways.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
                    China did not annouce the Air Defense Id Zone as Anti- Japanese one, They announced it as for every aircraft flying in and out of there. So lets not try 'save face' when that face has been clearly been lost by the US and Japanese actions, the same is being followed by the Koreans.
                    I think the chinese have continued to inflame the japanese that I'm not sure if its a matter of saving face or not. No doubt this alleged lose of face won't stop them doing something to annoy the Japanese again in future, resulting in lose of face.

                    Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
                    We have a better Government, than China simply because I am free unlike a Chinese zombie. If you mean by progress the trampling of citizen rights by a corrupt politburo then the Indians will have non of it. We call out the corrupt and we prosecute them, you cant even touch them, unless ofcourse they fight among each other. More companies prefer to have their manufacturing done in countries with democracy and human rights.
                    I'm more interested in outcomes and it does seem that despite having a system that should be better (I know this, because singapore and australia have good democratic governance, the outcome in India leaves alot to be desired.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
                      What did they expect, the Japanese to roll over? Chinese will not be able to handle the Japanese or its clout. Simple.
                      I don't know what they expect except to serve notice. The Chinese are here to stay.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by winton View Post
                        I think the chinese have continued to inflame the japanese that I'm not sure if its a matter of saving face or not. No doubt this alleged lose of face won't stop them doing something to annoy the Japanese again in future, resulting in lose of face.



                        I'm more interested in outcomes and it does seem that despite having a system that should be better (I know this, because singapore and australia have good democratic governance, the outcome in India leaves alot to be desired.
                        Comparing a democratic country as big as city another with 20 million, to that of the 7th largest country in the world with 2nd biggest population.

                        Chinese will have to stop somewhere, the question is who gives last blow and can make others not respond by giving up a little will win...

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          I don't know what they expect except to serve notice. The Chinese are here to stay.
                          ADIZ is not going to achieve anything, the boots on the ground is Japanese.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                            I don't know what they expect except to serve notice. The Chinese are here to stay.
                            Agreed. And I think the chinese ultimately want recognition that there is a dispute. Its getting harder and harder to ignore.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
                              ADIZ is not going to achieve anything, the boots on the ground is Japanese.
                              Do you have links for this?
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                                Do you have links for this?
                                Japanese Administered Island and claimed by China.

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