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10 Questions Every Liberal Should Ask Every Republican

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  • #61
    No, we ain't fans of the Dixie chicks. I don't care for an apology. Just fix your freaking mistake.
    Chimo

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    • #62
      Originally posted by DOR View Post
      Ditto:
      Could you tell me which EO that was?
      Where did I say EO? He did however instruct various federal executive agencies to act as if the law said something it did not. Such as delays in implementing various portions of the law, the creation of the federal exchanges, the on again off again you can keep your insurance and subside eligibility requirement changes.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
        Help a Canadian to understand, whose freaking fault is it that you Americans elected Obama?
        Given the now manifest manipulation of the approval process by the IRS, its no longer fair to say he was properly elected. Hundreds of Tea Party groups were deliberately hamstrung by the administration in what might be the biggest case of election manipulation in history. Thankfully, the whole thing is coming to light even if it is doing so too slowly. If Obama had nothing to hide, he'd instruct Holder to appoint a special prosecutor.

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        • #64
          z,

          that's a pretty big claim that you're making. yet when the FBI investigated they found no deliberate wrongdoing.

          using occam's razor, the whole thing smacks of a big bureaucratic foul-up, the root cause of which is a vaguely defined differential between a "civic organization" and a political organization. not dissimilar to the whole manufactured Benghazi scandal, although i'd certainly agree that the IRS issue has more legitimate claim.

          finally, if the election was decided by the (lack of) tax exemptions for Tea Party groups, were I a Republican I'd be quite concerned over the efficiency of the rest of the GOP fundraising machine, lol.
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            Help a Canadian to understand, whose freaking fault is it that you Americans elected Obama?
            David Axelrod

            He's really ugly, too
            "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              Help a Canadian to understand, whose freaking fault is it that you Americans elected Obama?
              So far Obama is doing well. He pulled US out of two expensive wars and got the economy back on track. The Great Recession is over and the ranks of unemployed Americans are thinning out. Sure salaries are nowhere near what it was the 2006 levels but at least it is better having these people employed than paying out unemployment benefits.

              His foreign policy is a mixed record but so far he has kept US out of any expensive war. That was the mandate the US populace gave to Obama when they elected him. He is doing all the moves he can to keep a lid on the pot from boiling over while keeping US from sticking its hand into the fire. He has reinforced Poland and other NATO allies and showing force in Russia's backyard and making things very painful for Russia. He is not giving Putin a lot of room to maneuver. He has limited the damage that Putin can do to Ukraine and even you have admitted that Ukraine was nowhere near a US ally or a NATO ally.

              If he closes out his term where the economy is on the upswing, real unemployment rate below 6%, the deficit largely reduced, he will be judged as a good domestic president no matter how hard the Tea partiers or Republicans paint him as incompetent or so. They would not be able to deny that on the domestic front, Obama did a lot better than Bush.

              And sometimes, I think you keep forgetting a basic principle. You are only as strong as you allow or make yourself to be. Sure Obama has sacrificed some foreign objectives for the domestic objectives and audience but that move will pay out more in the long run because it means he is keeping US healthy and strong and capable to withstand any threat instead of overextending oneself and tiring itself out. That is what Bush did to the military forces and even you have admitted that most NATO military forces were burnt out and needed time to rebuild themselves.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                Given the now manifest manipulation of the approval process by the IRS, its no longer fair to say he was properly elected. Hundreds of Tea Party groups were deliberately hamstrung by the administration in what might be the biggest case of election manipulation in history. Thankfully, the whole thing is coming to light even if it is doing so too slowly. If Obama had nothing to hide, he'd instruct Holder to appoint a special prosecutor.
                By the same vein, I would investigate the gerrymandering redrawing done by the Republicans that allowed the Republicans to keep the house. I can make the same argument that the House was not properly re-elected.

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                • #68
                  Asty, the FBI concluded its investigation without interviewing anyone or reviewing any documents some of are just now coming to light.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Some people do have short memories.

                    Another thing I want to add is that one of Obama's biggest accomplishments is that he didn't become another Herbert Hoover. In short, the recession Obama inherited stayed as a recession where the recession that Hoover inherited morphed into a decade long depression known as the Great Depression.

                    The stimulus that he introduced which the Republicans fought tooth and nail against was a major factor in keeping the Great Recession as a recession. If he was allowed to introduce more stimulus, the US economy would have rebounded with a greater kick and a major reduction in the unemployment ranks and improvement in the services. So I do not really understand how any legitimate basis those Tea Partiers have against Obama for increasing debt when Obama is trying to create more impetus for capital gains and production and economic activity to outgrow the debt and thereby turn the debt into an asset.

                    IIRC, OOE admitted that a mortgage if set up properly can be an asset instead of a liability. That is what the Tea Partiers and to some extent, some republicans do not understand.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                      IIRC, OOE admitted that a mortgage if set up properly can be an asset instead of a liability.
                      That wasn't me. Think it was DOR.
                      Chimo

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                        Some people do have short memories.

                        Another thing I want to add is that one of Obama's biggest accomplishments is that he didn't become another Herbert Hoover. In short, the recession Obama inherited stayed as a recession where the recession that Hoover inherited morphed into a decade long depression known as the Great Depression.

                        The stimulus that he introduced which the Republicans fought tooth and nail against was a major factor in keeping the Great Recession as a recession. If he was allowed to introduce more stimulus, the US economy would have rebounded with a greater kick and a major reduction in the unemployment ranks and improvement in the services. So I do not really understand how any legitimate basis those Tea Partiers have against Obama for increasing debt when Obama is trying to create more impetus for capital gains and production and economic activity to outgrow the debt and thereby turn the debt into an asset.

                        IIRC, OOE admitted that a mortgage if set up properly can be an asset instead of a liability. That is what the Tea Partiers and to some extent, some republicans do not understand.
                        The TP is mainly a middle class movement and Obama has been a disaster for them. Real income is down and the dollar inflation he's been allowing the fed to pump (QE) has lead to high fuel and food prices while at the same time he's done little to reign in the banks and Wall St that caused the recession. Obama's good for the 1%. For the 99% it was a and is a depression- unemployment is still up, wages are still down.
                        Last edited by zraver; 07 Aug 14,, 02:15.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          Where did I say EO? He did however instruct various federal executive agencies to act as if the law said something it did not. Such as delays in implementing various portions of the law, the creation of the federal exchanges, the on again off again you can keep your insurance and subside eligibility requirement changes.
                          I was the one that brought up EOs. In response to your response to this
                          Quote Originally Posted by Gun Grape View Post
                          I know the man who bullies his stuff through Executive Order. Bypassing the Constitution and going off on his own.

                          Oh wait He has signed Fewer Executive Orders than the last 10 Presidents.

                          As Emily Latella use to say " Never mind"
                          quote posted by Zraver
                          Its not how many, but what. re-writing whole parts of the ADA on a whim to protect his allies in the House and Senate is not in any way part of a functioning representative system.

                          I asked what EO changed the American with Disabilities Act (ADA)

                          But since you meant the ACA and the President deferring implementing parts of the law, ignoring other parts, then let me ask this

                          How are his actions any different than any other President in modern time?

                          Going back I can show you where Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush Jr did the same.

                          Jr refused to follow quite a few.

                          Good article from 2006 detailing some of them. Far more serious than a health care law

                          http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/30/wo...anted=all&_r=0

                          Some highlights. But read the whole article

                          On at least four occasions while Bush has been president, Congress has passed laws forbidding US troops from engaging in combat in Colombia, where the US military is advising the government in its struggle against narcotics-funded Marxist rebels.

                          After signing each bill, Bush declared in his signing statement that he did not have to obey any of the Colombia restrictions because he is commander in chief.

                          Bush has also said he can bypass laws requiring him to tell Congress before diverting money from an authorized program in order to start a secret operation, such as the "black sites" where suspected terrorists are secretly imprisoned.
                          Congress has also twice passed laws forbidding the military from using intelligence that was not "lawfully collected," including any information on Americans that was gathered in violation of the Fourth Amendment's protections against unreasonable searches.

                          Congress first passed this provision in August 2004, when Bush's warrantless domestic spying program was still a secret, and passed it again after the program's existence was disclosed in December 2005.

                          On both occasions, Bush declared in signing statements that only he, as commander in chief, could decide whether such intelligence can be used by the military.
                          The article doesn't just hit on Bush
                          Since the early 19th century, American presidents have occasionally signed a large bill while declaring that they would not enforce a specific provision they believed was unconstitutional. On rare occasions, historians say, presidents also issued signing statements interpreting a law and explaining any concerns about it.
                          Reagan's successors continued this practice. George H.W. Bush challenged 232 statutes over four years in office, and Bill Clinton objected to 140 laws over his eight years, according to Kelley, the Miami University of Ohio professor.

                          Many of the challenges involved longstanding legal ambiguities and points of conflict between the president and Congress.

                          Throughout the past two decades, for example, each president -- including the current one -- has objected to provisions requiring him to get permission from a congressional committee before taking action. The Supreme Court made clear in 1983 that only the full Congress can direct the executive branch to do things, but lawmakers have continued writing laws giving congressional committees such a role.

                          But the current President Bush has abandoned the veto entirely, as well as any semblance of the political caution that Alito counseled back in 1986. In just five years, Bush has challenged more than 750 new laws, by far a record for any president, while becoming the first president since Thomas Jefferson to stay so long in office without issuing a veto.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by zraver View Post
                            the dollar inflation he's been allowing the fed to pump (QE) has lead to high fuel and food prices
                            Or maybe its an increase in worldwide demand that is keeping fuel prices high. The US is now a net exported of oil. All that new oil didn't cause our fuel prices to go down. Foreign demand keeps prices high so instead of keeping it here, we send it to China and Japan

                            while at the same time he's done little to reign in the banks and Wall St that caused the recession.
                            Good, I've more than made up for losses in my retirement account due to Wall Street not being reigned in


                            Obama's good for the 1%. For the 99% it was and is a depression- unemployment is still up, wages are still down.
                            I think the generation that lived through the actual depression would laugh you out of the room for that statement.

                            I would agree that is was almost or just as bad as the recession of the late 70s early 80s. Nowhere near depression level

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              The TP is mainly a middle class movement and Obama has been a disaster for them. Real income is down and the dollar inflation he's been allowing the fed to pump (QE) has lead to high fuel and food prices while at the same time he's done little to reign in the banks and Wall St that caused the recession. Obama's good for the 1%. For the 99% it was a and is a depression- unemployment is still up, wages are still down.
                              No, the Tea Party movement is among the red state white populace folks and the TP has been a disaster for the US. They are actually hindering US's ability to rebound back with a strong effective stimulus and dragging out the effects of the recession much longer than it has to be. The TP is not allowing creative destruction forces to get rid of the underperforming sectors and move on to more productive sectors.

                              There is no funding for the infrastructure of the US even though it is crumbling and is in serious need of renovation, update or overhaul to make way for newer and more effective technology, techniques or materials. The TP is allowing stagnation to set it and rot all in the name of not allowing more debt and lower federal spending, never minding that the stimulus would have restored a large portion of the middle class back to the income level they previously enjoyed.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by astralis View Post
                                further irony is that the border state republicans want Obama to do executive orders given the recent Republican failure to even agree on their OWN border bill.

                                note how eager Obama is whenever republicans try the whole "out of control executive" shtick. in fact his entire talking point lately is that he's doing something because Congress will not act. apparently polling wise it's pretty popular otherwise he wouldn't do it.
                                And don't forget that their biggest historical hero, Abraham Lincoln, pulled off US's biggest executive order that completely flied in the face of the Supreme Court, the Emancipation Proclamation and the suspension of habeas corpus. Everybody decried Lincoln for being unconstitutional and if impeached, there would have been enough cause and grounds for removal of Lincoln.

                                If the Supreme Court rules against Obama, then it would be going against the history of the likes of Emancipation Proclamation, Ronald Reagan's decision to fire the ATC employees during a strike and bringing in military ATCers to direct air travel, Eisenhower's order of desegration, Truman's order of desegregation in the military forces and rule them as illegal.

                                Boehner and the House Republicans can't have their cake and eat it.

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