A pivotal moment for the Indian Navy -Induction of the newest aircraft carrier

[zraver]

Vikramaditya is essentially a new ship so I doubt that she will be spending most of her time in port broken down.

She still has the sub-par Russian power plant that has doomed all the Kiev's built. In addition, not only is her powerplant junk, India told Russia to make it worse by using thermal bricks instead of asbestos for insulation. The lead ship of the class- Kiev made less than 20 short voyages from 74-89 and was all but used up by that short life span. The class is junk. Even Soviets decided not to pursue the technology and the follow on capitol ship class the Kirov went with nuclear power. Notice which class Russia spent its money on to get back into service and which class Russia sold off.... I hope India gets her into fighting trim but I have my doubts.

[Blademaster]

She still has the sub-par Russian power plant that has doomed all the Kiev's built. In addition, not only is her powerplant junk, India told Russia to make it worse by using thermal bricks instead of asbestos for insulation. The lead ship of the class- Kiev made less than 20 short voyages from 74-89 and was all but used up by that short life span. The class is junk. Even Soviets decided not to pursue the technology and the follow on capitol ship class the Kirov went with nuclear power. Notice which class Russia spent its money on to get back into service and which class Russia sold off.... I hope India gets her into fighting trim but I have my doubts.

You would be surprised at Indian ingenuity. Besides, spending $2.3 billion dollars means that the IN does not have the option of letting INS Vikramaditya fail. It is simply not just an option.

[Officer of Engineers]

You would be surprised at Indian ingenuity. Besides, spending $2.3 billion dollars means that the IN does not have the option of letting INS Vikramaditya fail. It is simply not just an option.

Which means dock time. I don't care how ingenious you are, you can't make changes to the powerplant while under steam. The only way to do that is at dock.

[Firestorm]

She still has the sub-par Russian power plant that has doomed all the Kiev's built. In addition, not only is her powerplant junk, India told Russia to make it worse by using thermal bricks instead of asbestos for insulation. The lead ship of the class- Kiev made less than 20 short voyages from 74-89 and was all but used up by that short life span. The class is junk. Even Soviets decided not to pursue the technology and the follow on capitol ship class the Kirov went with nuclear power. Notice which class Russia spent its money on to get back into service and which class Russia sold off.... I hope India gets her into fighting trim but I have my doubts.

They changed it back to Asbestos apparently.

To a query on the carrier’s boilers, which malfunctioned during trials last year, leading to another spell of delay in delivery, Mr. Dyachkov said the yard had replaced asbestos with “another material” on the firebrick-wall at the suggestion of the Indian Navy. “After it failed, it was realised that asbestos was the best and that it would not jeopardise the health of seamen. So we installed asbestos and our decision was proved correct during trials,” he said.

Some other nuggets

We’ve met all specifications and it attained a top speed of 29.5 knots without any glitch… The flight trials were witnessed by Vice-Admiral Shekhar Sinha, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief of India’s Western Naval Command. Out of the 8,600 miles the carrier sailed during trials, 1,700 miles were done under the command of Captain Berry, its Commanding Officer. There were more than 3,200 people aboard including 1,000-odd personnel from the Navy
...
Rear Admiral R. Hari Kumar [who previously commanded INS Viraat] headed the carrier acceptance team
...

Mr. Novoselov said 2,500 km of cable network and 3,000 km of pipes were fully replaced. “Besides, all radio and electronic warfare equipment, fans, pipes and the like are new.”

Igor Leonav, chief commissioner of Sevmash, who is heading the guarantee team to India, said the carrier controlled 778 flights during trials. There were 88 landings, too, all piloted by Russians.

The carrier is coming without any Air Defense system apparently. It is going to be retrofitted in India. The IN wants to fit the Barak on it I presume, because that is becoming standard on all its other ships. The Israelis probably wouldn't have liked Russian engineers fitting it on the Vik I guess.

[zraver]

Firestorm, I really hope it works for India, but that power plant may be the worst ever placed into a capitol ship based on the past history of the class. Chances are she is going to be a dockside queen.

[Blademaster]

Firestorm, I really hope it works for India, but that power plant may be the worst ever placed into a capitol ship based on the past history of the class. Chances are she is going to be a dockside queen.

Then what kind of replacement do you recommend and please consider the type and costs of fuel involved.

[Firestorm]

Firestorm, I really hope it works for India, but that power plant may be the worst ever placed into a capitol ship based on the past history of the class. Chances are she is going to be a dockside queen.

Perhaps. But the IN had no other feasible choices when they selected the Gorshkov. A carrier available for some of the time is still better than no carrier at all.

[Officer of Engineers]

I've long argued that several regiments of BACKFIRES with air refueling support with the appropriate training would do wonders above what a carrier would do. For one, India just gave all her opponents a $2.5bil missile magnet.

[Blademaster]

I've long argued that several regiments of BACKFIRES with air refueling support with the appropriate training would do wonders above what a carrier would do. For one, India just gave all her opponents a $2.5bil missile magnet.

You just recently said that it would be very hard for planes to find a carrier in the sea. According to the threat assessment, not PLA or Pakistan can pull it off. Only US can pull it off and US is not an enemy of India.

[zraver]

Then what kind of replacement do you recommend and please consider the type and costs of fuel involved.

For what mission?

As OOE says below, regiments of maritime strike bombers make more sense, perhaps with subs. India has 2 carriers, nether will be at sea at the same time and they operate dissimilar aircraft in very limited numbers and no real ability to sustain long time on station. In other words the IN is NOT USN-light. What the IN needs to be able to do is block any PLAN/PLANAF movement through the straights of Malacaa and blockade the Pakistani coast.

You just recently said that it would be very hard for planes to find a carrier in the sea. According to the threat assessment, not PLA or Pakistan can pull it off. Only US can pull it off and US is not an enemy of India.

The US has a lot more carriers and in environment that is a lot easier to hide carriers in; more shipping lanes in crossing directions and more Islands and weather systems. Lots of big ships with crossing wakes. India has 1 or 2 carriers with short ranged aircraft, that to be in striking range, will have to be close to major east-west shipping lanes populated with huge numbers of Chinese oriented vessels plus the lack of crossing shipping lanes means it will be easier for Chinese remote sensors to detect Indian carriers if they leave the shipping lanes to hide from Costco freighters...

[Officer of Engineers]

You just recently said that it would be very hard for planes to find a carrier in the sea. According to the threat assessment, not PLA or Pakistan can pull it off. Only US can pull it off and US is not an enemy of India.

Subs.

[Firestorm]

I've long argued that several regiments of BACKFIRES with air refueling support with the appropriate training would do wonders above what a carrier would do. For one, India just gave all her opponents a $2.5bil missile magnet.

Backfires would be maintenance hogs themselves and end up as hangar-queens. Besides, they would be easy targets for Chinese aircraft and air-defense ships alike. Much easier to detect and shoot down, than smaller low flying Mig-29s.

If backfires were really the answer, the Chinese would be getting loads of them too, instead of the Varyag.

[Officer of Engineers]

Backfires would be maintenance hogs themselves and end up as hangar-queens. Besides, they would be easy targets for Chinese aircraft and air-defense ships alike. Much easier to detect and shoot down, than smaller low flying Mig-29s.

In the Indian Ocean? As far as air superiority is concerned, BACKFIRES would give you greater coverage than this carrier.

If backfires were really the answer, the Chinese would be getting loads of them too, instead of the Varyag.

They did. Or at least their version of it, the JH-7, 3 regiments at last count. They also used the SU-33MKK

[zraver]

Backfires would be maintenance hogs themselves and end up as hangar-queens. Besides, they would be easy targets for Chinese aircraft and air-defense ships alike. Much easier to detect and shoot down, than smaller low flying Mig-29s.

backfires in the maritime strike role are nearly impossible to shoot down... They carry sophisticated, long ranged, big warhead hard to shoot down anti-shipping missiles on a platform that is 3-4x faster than a mig 29 and 3-4 longer ranged as well. All they need to know is where the target is, they never have to get into the targets SAM envelope.

If backfires were really the answer, the Chinese would be getting loads of them too, instead of the Varyag.

The Varyag is a show the flag only platform. China is (by all accounts) trying to build a robust area denial strategy based on subs, ballistic missiles and stealthed strike bombers.

[Tronic]

They did. Or at least their version of it, the JH-7, 3 regiments at last count. They also used the SU-33MKK

Colonel, if we're counting maritime strike aircraft, then India uses the SPECAT Jaguar for that role.

There is really nothing Pakistan or China can throw at India that warrants having 3 aircraft carriers. The Indian carriers serve a larger role than area denial. They are primarily for force projection, and secondarily for gaining the technological and operational capability on which to expand on in the future. This is somewhat akin to India's SSBNs; it won't be arming those subs with nuke-tipped missiles anytime soon, but simply designing, building and operating them helps in expanding your knowledge base and reduces the technological gap with others.