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  • #61
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
    . A million dead? Give me a break. Perhaps several hundred thousand at most - a terrible enough figure, but nowhere near a million.
    Thats the Wiki estimate for civilian deaths. Check it out yourself. Its at the high end of the death scale, but I think in cases where you have a colonial overlording it over the natives, you do tend to go with the most pessimistic figure. a few hundred thousand isn't something that makes it any better than a million.

    Aid always comes with strings attached. usually favours or you owe me or you scratch my back etc. Its never for free. There is alway some obligation in the future.

    I'll respond to your other points in another post.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by winton View Post
      I'm sure the phillipinos totally agree to it all, cause it was legal. The fact of the matter is, there was an insurrection because some of them wanted independance. Not ruled by america. more than a million died fighting Us colonial rule. Thats not very liberating.
      Where I go to look at the insurrection which covered 3 years. Wiki is a joke. Don't forget that civilians were killed by BOTH sides depending on which side they were cooperating with.

      Philippine-American War, 1899-1902 | by Arnaldo Dumindin

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
        Where I go to look at the insurrection which covered 3 years. Wiki is a joke. Don't forget that civilians were killed by BOTH sides depending on which side they were cooperating with.

        Philippine-American War, 1899-1902 | by Arnaldo Dumindin
        and what where they killed for?

        American domination over the phillipinos or an independant phillipines by the their own people for their own people.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by winton View Post
          and what where they killed for?

          American domination over the phillipinos or an independant phillipines by the their own people for their own people.

          I've read the whole article. Have you in order to get your answer?

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
            I've read the whole article. Have you in order to get your answer?
            Do you need to read anything to know that colonialization and its brutal crack down is wrong?

            anyway, we are going way off topic.

            The americans have sent their helicopters in and promised much aid. I hope that aid does not come with strings attached and that the phillipines will get it all in its entirety. History does not give me much hope as american tax payers will want a good return on their tax money.

            Plenty of examples of hurricanes in cuba, and not much help from america. plenty of examples of aid being offered by other countries and the majority of it goes to NGOs and companies. Not much of it reaches the native or even the country. They are still left to rebuild their lives.

            Look at Haiti.

            Haiti earthquake: two years on, and just half of promised aid has been delivered | World news | The Guardian

            Its an indication of things to come for the phillipines. I'm pretty sure the phillipines are wise to this and make their next moves accordingly, but they are just absolutely unprepared for this, so they may have to take what they can get.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by winton View Post
              The americans have sent their helicopters in and promised much aid. I hope that aid does not come with strings attached and that the phillipines will get it all in its entirety. History does not give me much hope as american tax payers will want a good return on their tax money.

              Plenty of examples of hurricanes in cuba, and not much help from america. plenty of examples of aid being offered by other countries and the majority of it goes to NGOs and companies. Not much of it reaches the native or even the country. They are still left to rebuild their lives.

              Look at Haiti.

              Haiti earthquake: two years on, and just half of promised aid has been delivered | World news | The Guardian

              Its an indication of things to come for the phillipines. I'm pretty sure the phillipines are wise to this and make their next moves accordingly, but they are just absolutely unprepared for this, so they may have to take what they can get.
              Can't tell you first hand about other places, but 50 years ago US aid came to my city without any strings attached. And that was in an officially socialistic country.

              Watching the news about US relief efforts in other places compared to talks from people who were around here in 1963, it seems US aid had got many layers of bureaucracy over the decades, but it's also the first to arrive when needed.
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by winton View Post
                Do you need to read anything to know that colonialization and its brutal crack down is wrong?

                anyway, we are going way off topic.
                Nice to know since you are the one who took it off topic to begin with.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by winton View Post
                  Do you need to read anything to know that colonialization and its brutal crack down is wrong?

                  anyway, we are going way off topic.

                  The americans have sent their helicopters in and promised much aid. I hope that aid does not come with strings attached and that the phillipines will get it all in its entirety. History does not give me much hope as american tax payers will want a good return on their tax money.

                  Plenty of examples of hurricanes in cuba, and not much help from america. plenty of examples of aid being offered by other countries and the majority of it goes to NGOs and companies. Not much of it reaches the native or even the country. They are still left to rebuild their lives.

                  Look at Haiti.

                  Haiti earthquake: two years on, and just half of promised aid has been delivered | World news | The Guardian

                  Its an indication of things to come for the phillipines. I'm pretty sure the phillipines are wise to this and make their next moves accordingly, but they are just absolutely unprepared for this, so they may have to take what they can get.
                  If you were half as intelligent as you seem to think you are, you'd be dangerous. The fact that you even made this statement tells me that you know very little about the Filipino people and their relationship with the US. I'm pretty sure most here with REAL knowledge of the relationship would tell you that the relationship is pretty warm. Americans are always welcome there, and the same is true in the reciprocal. Large portions of the US military are populated by Philippine nationals and Filipino-Americans, and have been since before WWII, and trust me, they all aren't "mess boys" which is what I assume you have in mind. All of my best electricians were Filipinos, hands down. Large amounts of US capital makes its way to the Philippines from its former colonial master every year. More to the point, we've bled together. It's a relationship neither side takes lightly.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    If you were half as intelligent as you seem to think you are, you'd be dangerous.
                    I will take that as a compilment.

                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    The fact that you even made this statement tells me that you know very little about the Filipino people and their relationship with the US.
                    I'm not the only one.

                    Is the US Exploiting Typhoon Suffering to Win Military Bases in the Philippines? « Antiwar.com Blog

                    You cannot talk for the phillipino people yourself. Most are concerned with putting food on the table. Its difficult to reconcile that after 50 years of US conlonialisation and aid over the years, they still have alot of work to do.

                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    I'm pretty sure most here with REAL knowledge of the relationship would tell you that the relationship is pretty warm.
                    Its warm between diplomats sure and its warm because the Filipinos want america to fullfil its treaty obligations which is a cause for great concern amongst the Filipino leaders who actually give a damn right now, cause they aren't hearing what they want to hear, unlike the Japanese.

                    If you were to go to China (whom you all see as an enemy) you'll meet alot of warm people too.

                    What I'm getting at, is that this warm relationship hasn't really done much for the Filipinos

                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    Americans are always welcome there
                    American dollars are welcome. So are chinese yuans and any other currency you care to think of.

                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    Large portions of the US military are populated by Philippine nationals and Filipino-Americans
                    I can understand their need to get a green card and improve their lot. The US mil is a viable pathway and a viable career.

                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    they all aren't "mess boys" which is what I assume you have in mind.
                    you assumed wrong. I have a great affection for the Filipinos from their fight for independance to the plight of their poor who haven't been well served by their leadership visavis this warm relationship with the US.

                    As they are a part of ASEAN, they are brothers to me.

                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    All of my best electricians were Filipinos, hands down.
                    some good members of my church are filipino. Whats your point?

                    Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                    Large amounts of US capital makes its way to the Philippines from its former colonial master every year. More to the point, we've bled together. It's a relationship neither side takes lightly.
                    which is dwarfed still by the amount of US capital that makes its way to China. Which is also a relationship that neither sides take lightly. So the Filipino leadership might wonder whats going on?

                    There is alot of opposition to the Plan Us bases in the philipines. Alot of hesitation by some in the leadership itself.

                    News Analysis: Plan to allow US, Japan military access to Phl bases met by opposition | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com


                    Do you even remember what the mood was like when the philipines kick the US out 2 decades ago?
                    Last edited by winton; 26 Nov 13,, 01:48.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                      All of my best electricians were Filipinos, hands down. Large amounts of US capital makes its way to the Philippines from its former colonial master every year. More to the point, we've bled together. It's a relationship neither side takes lightly.
                      They've probably let too much of their brains drained in this relationship. The end result is that they went from the most developed to the least ASEAN country in 2 generations.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I can't decide if winton is simply an idiot or an idiotic troll...

                        Anti-American, a poor speller, poor grasp on facts...

                        As they are a part of ASEAN, they are brothers to me.
                        Its difficult to reconcile that after 50 years of US conlonialisation and aid over the years, they still have alot of work to do.
                        . I have a great affection for the Filipinos from their fight for independance to the plight of their poor who haven't been well served by their leadership visavis this warm relationship with the US.
                        Plenty of examples of hurricanes in cuba, and not much help from america.
                        To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by winton View Post


                          Do you even remember what the mood was like when the philipines kick the US out 2 decades ago?
                          I do since I was there before and many times after. Jubilation for those who wanted the U.S. out so they could show they could stand on their own. Shock and despair for many others who saw their jobs and a big hunk of American dollars disappear overnight.

                          Those who wanted the U.S. were then shocked when the Navy took out everything they could from Subic for Guam and other locations. They had expected to the U.S. to leave everything in place for them to take. As I have said before the actual country of the Philippines operates in an alternate universe most of the time.

                          P.S. learn to spell the name of the country (Philippines) and people (Filipino) correctly.

                          Sige, aalis na ako. Oo.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                            I do since I was there before and many times after. Jubilation for those who wanted the U.S. out so they could show they could stand on their own. Shock and despair for many others who saw their jobs and a big hunk of American dollars disappear overnight.

                            Those who wanted the U.S. were then shocked when the Navy took out everything they could from Subic for Guam and other locations. They had expected to the U.S. to leave everything in place for them to take. As I have said before the actual country of the Philippines operates in an alternate universe most of the time.

                            P.S. learn to spell the name of the country (Philippines) and people (Filipino) correctly.

                            Sige, aalis na ako. Oo.
                            He thinks the Pinoy are his brothers. He don't know the half!

                            Mabuhay!

                            Malaking Pandesal

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by desertswo View Post
                              If you were half as intelligent as you seem to think you are, you'd be dangerous.
                              If he was half as intelligent as he thinks he is ... he'd still be a virgin.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                                I do since I was there before and many times after. Jubilation for those who wanted the U.S. out so they could show they could stand on their own. Shock and despair for many others who saw their jobs and a big hunk of American dollars disappear overnight.
                                Well, thanks for sharing your experience, I mean it. We just have different world views.

                                I think a foreign military base is not an economy any country ought to rely on. Even the Okinawans want it gone. I think the shock and despair of hookers and nightclub workers were probably something the vast population of Filipinos did not miss nor cared much for. In any event, its not like it made up a massive part of their GDP.

                                Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                                Those who wanted the U.S. were then shocked when the Navy took out everything they could from Subic for Guam and other locations. They had expected to the U.S. to leave everything in place for them to take.
                                Having milked the Phillipines of a strategic port for half a century or more, the least it could do was leave a legacy for the filipino people, rather than gutting it down to the core. That would have been a true mark of friendship.

                                Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                                As I have said before the actual country of the Philippines operates in an alternate universe most of the time.
                                I agree that things a done a little different in the Philippines, but... they have their freedom and sovereignty. Isn't that something you can't put a price on?

                                Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                                P.S. learn to spell the name of the country (Philippines) and people (Filipino) correctly.
                                Its not intentional. Its the occasional spell check malfunction, however I am a little disappointed that some would be anal about spelling and not anal about the truth.
                                Last edited by winton; 26 Nov 13,, 16:39.

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