Why give aid to a country sending rockets to Mars?

[bolo121]

The people of Gujarat keep electing him again and again. Obviously they don't share your opinion about him being a polarizing and divisive figure.

Sure they do, the mentality is Modi taught a certain community a 'lesson' and its all over now so lets forget it.
After all he keeps delivering the economic goods.

But at the national level there is little appetite for him. People will vote for their regional satraps and ignore him.

[anil]

It is a well known fact that regional parties decide which coalition will lead the govt but 1998 was a confirmation that a non-congress govt could actually win if they nominate a leader with a nationwide appeal, in 1998 it was ABV, in 2014 it may very well be NM.

The current situation is no doubt pathetic but a significant portion of the blame should actually go to christians and muslims themselves who had taken out a witch-hunt against the BJP and labelled them as communal and anti-secular instead of incorporating themselves within the BJP. In reality the BJP is hardly communal rather a victim of bajrang dal type independent groups causing headaches to the BJP in the countryside. The reality is that the minorities viciously refuse to come to terms with the BJP perhaps they think that after their zero sum opposition, the BJP will not accept them?

The minorities assumption might not all be untrue. Some sections of the BJP too has started thinking that, "why bother incorporating the muslims/christians into the BJP when they don't vote for us anyway".

Anyhow, I'll be very very surprised if modi actually wins solely because for the first time in india, a kirana store employee stands to become the PM of india which is light years away from the current politics of dynasty and family. If that happens, it'll mark a paradigm shift in the history of indian politics. :)

[Tronic]

On a more serious note, Indians (and Brits for that matter) should be really pissed over that $300mn monument that is going to be built.

Wonder why they weren't pissed over this: India pledges $10 bn to IMF to bail out Euro zone | Business Standard

[Tronic]

The current situation is no doubt pathetic but a significant portion of the blame should actually go to christians and muslims themselves who had taken out a witch-hunt against the BJP and labelled them as communal and anti-secular instead of incorporating themselves within the BJP. In reality the BJP is hardly communal rather a victim of bajrang dal type independent groups causing headaches to the BJP in the countryside. The reality is that the minorities viciously refuse to come to terms with the BJP perhaps they think that after their zero sum opposition, the BJP will not accept them?

The minorities assumption might not all be untrue. Some sections of the BJP too has started thinking that, "why bother incorporating the muslims/christians into the BJP when they don't vote for us anyway".

So now even the stigma associated with the BJP for being communal is the work of those pesky minorities, rather than BJP's own actions, such as Babri demolition..

[Blademaster]

Anyhow, I'll be very very surprised if modi actually wins solely because for the first time in india, a kirana store employee stands to become the PM of india which is light years away from the current politics of dynasty and family. If that happens, it'll mark a paradigm shift in the history of indian politics. :)

Which is why I want NM to win. I am so sick of this dynasty crap. It is so detrimental to the development of India.

[anil]

So now even the stigma associated with the BJP for being communal is the work of those pesky minorities, rather than BJP's own actions, such as Babri demolition

Seriously?

If you actually consider the demolition of a muslim place of worship as a significant event then you will have a hard time accounting for the several dozen temples razed and vandalized in the many small time communal riots in villages across india. IMO that's not an argument in favour of the muslims, it's actually tipped in favour of the hindus.

If bars have already been lowered, you might want to focus on actual human life rather than the political chest beating on the loss of some very ugly deteriorating concrete structures.

[Tronic]

Seriously?

If you actually consider the demolition of a muslim place of worship as a significant event...

To explain why the BJP would be labelled as communal and why the minorities don't trust them, then yes, that would make it a significant event..

then you will have a hard time accounting for the several dozen temples razed and vandalized in the many small time communal riots in villages across india.

And every other "Abdul" can go on about having a 'hard time accounting for the several dozen mosques razed and vandalized in the many small time communal riots in villages across india.'

IMO that's not an argument in favour of the muslims, it's actually tipped in favour of the hindus.

So Central Asian hordes invaded, destroyed and looted your temples and centuries later you are baying for your own kinsman's blood because he now shares a religion with those Hordes. How much more pathetic can this be?

If bars have already been lowered, you might want to focus on actual human life rather than the political chest beating on the loss of some very ugly deteriorating concrete structures.

No clue what you're addressing here.

[Doktor]

Wonder why they weren't pissed over this: India pledges $10 bn to IMF to bail out Euro zone | Business Standard

Have you read your article? It says it's slightly bellow India's quota.

Besides, your gov was saving Euros in you Forex reserves.

[Tronic]

Have you read your article? It says it's slightly bellow India's quota.

Yes, I've read that article, and it seems like we both came to different conclusions.

So, I googled around to check and I have yet to see where that $10 billion is the payment for the quota, rather than the bailout fund. Why would the Indian PM "pledge" $10 billion if India was merely paying it's obligated quota? Doesn't make sense. From what I've read, it seems to be an entirely separate fund, not part of the quota:

Last week Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had announced that India would contribute USD 10 billion to the IMF's USD 430 billion bailout fund for the euro-zone.

India's contribution was part of a pledge by the G20 nations made in April to supply the IMF with extra firepower.
India to become 8th largest shareholder in IMF | NDTV.com

And the next year, another $2 billion: India to give $2bn to fund bailouts in Europe - Times Of India. Doesn't sound like a payment for it's quota.

Besides, your gov was saving Euros in you Forex reserves.

Any link?

I wouldn't be surprised if they gave Euro a thought post 2008, but post 2009? Doesn't look all that much better than the dollar.

[Doktor]

Yes, I've read that article, and it seems like we both came to different conclusions.

So, I googled around to check and I have yet to see where that $10 billion is the payment for the quota, rather than the bailout fund. Why would the Indian PM "pledge" $10 billion if India was merely paying it's obligated quota? Doesn't make sense. From what I've read, it seems to be an entirely separate fund, not part of the quota:

And the next year, another $2 billion: India to give $2bn to fund bailouts in Europe - Times Of India. Doesn't sound like a payment for it's quota.

Could be the author wanted to say that India's share in the fund is equal as its' quota.

Any link?

I wouldn't be surprised if they gave Euro a thought post 2008, but post 2009? Doesn't look all that much better than the dollar.

I was trying to find data about level of Euros into India's FX reserves, but tough luck.

However, reading the weekly fluctuations of Indian FX reserves, you will almost always find a little footnote that (unless there was a major buying/selling) the change is due to the change of value of non-US$ assets, which, to me indicates that there are still large amount of euros.

Since you replied to my post on the cost of the tallest monument in the world, it still should piss your citizens, since you could sent 4 missions to Mars with the same money. Or negate total UK 'aid'.

[Double Edge]

It is a well known fact that regional parties decide which coalition will lead the govt but 1998 was a confirmation that a non-congress govt could actually win if they nominate a leader with a nationwide appeal, in 1998 it was ABV, in 2014 it may very well be NM.

I think 2014 is too early. 2019 is more likely for Modi. If (a very big if) ever BJP wins i figure a bait & switch like happened with Sonia in 2004. They need to coaltion build and if partners are unwilling they will replace NM if it means getting to the centre. As you said they've done this already in '98 and they barely won that one. Advani was hard done by, they gave him a fair chance.

The current situation is no doubt pathetic but a significant portion of the blame should actually go to christians and muslims themselves who had taken out a witch-hunt against the BJP and labelled them as communal and anti-secular instead of incorporating themselves within the BJP. In reality the BJP is hardly communal rather a victim of bajrang dal type independent groups causing headaches to the BJP in the countryside. The reality is that the minorities viciously refuse to come to terms with the BJP perhaps they think that after their zero sum opposition, the BJP will not accept them?

Fear. Irrational and not open to reason. Takes time to get to the point where people can say with conviction they're not afraid of the BJP. It's as simple as that. Isn't that better as opposed to always living in fear that the BJP might come to power and assuming the worst.

The media fuels it. But then the media's job is to make good on anything that grabs your attention. Always ready to amplify anybody who has something to say. Saying the bjp is a victim of bajrang dal could be considered as disinformation. But i suspect its true. Radical outfits like to believe the BJP owes them a living.

The minorities assumption might not all be untrue. Some sections of the BJP too has started thinking that, "why bother incorporating the muslims/christians into the BJP when they don't vote for us anyway".

Immigrants & coloured people vs the US republican party.

Anyhow, I'll be very very surprised if modi actually wins solely because for the first time in india, a kirana store employee stands to become the PM of india which is light years away from the current politics of dynasty and family. If that happens, it'll mark a paradigm shift in the history of indian politics. :)

The only brahmins in indian politics are communist party leaders, sheila dixit & the Gandhis. Dalits have been in power for some time now. Had read an article sometime back that showed things have changed a lot since founding of the union. We're more diverse in terms of leaders backgrounds thanks to the mandal commision. Minorities as well as women continue to be under-represented though.

[Tronic]

Could be the author wanted to say that India's share in the fund is equal as its' quota.

Possibly. It's contribution to the fund may be somewhat equal to it's quota, but it is not the quota; an important distinction to make.

I was trying to find data about level of Euros into India's FX reserves, but tough luck.

However, reading the weekly fluctuations of Indian FX reserves, you will almost always find a little footnote that (unless there was a major buying/selling) the change is due to the change of value of non-US$ assets, which, to me indicates that there are still large amount of euros.

What I have seen;

RBI said the FCA expressed in US dollar terms included the effect of appreciation or depreciation of non-US currencies held in reserve such as the pound sterling, euro and yen.
India's forex reserves down $1.65 billion to $281 billion - The Times of India

So there are Euros in the reserves, possibly bought after the 2008 US economic meltdown, along with the Yen and the Pound. Hard to gauge how much of each they are holding though.

Since you replied to my post on the cost of the tallest monument in the world, it still should piss your citizens, since you could sent 4 missions to Mars with the same money. Or negate total UK 'aid'.

It's the Gujarat government building the statue, not the Indian central government. The money for this statue is coming from taxes levied by the Gujarat state, not central government's tax revenue. So as long as the Gujarati people want it, it's their tax money, their call. What say do other Indians have over where the Gujarati people spend their money, let alone the Brits? They have arose to be one of the most industrialized states in the country, within a decade, with little assistance from the Indian central government, let alone foreign aid.

Now, coming to the foreign aid; the Indian government has been pushing for an end to it for some time now. It's been a controversial topic in both UK and India:

The Government's controversial decision to continue giving money to India, a nation that has more billionaires than the UK and an aid programme of its own, is directly linked to developing trade and investment opportunities, a senior minister admitted yesterday.

In terms of perhaps surprising bluntness, international development minister Andrew Mitchell said the decision to spend £1.2bn over the next five years was part of a broader partnership that also included the hoped-for sale of fighter jets to India.
Aid to India part of broad plan to build trade and investment, says minister - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

India's Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee told Britain that India does not require British foreign aid, and tried to stop it almost a year ago, the Telegraph reported. They revealed that Mukherjee said in Parliament “We do not require the aid. It is a peanut in our total development exercises (expenditure)."
British overseas aid to India not wanted by India government
-----------
The papers also quoted a "leaked memo" which reportedly said that the then foreign secretary, Nirupama Rao proposed "not to avail (of) any further DFID (British) assistance with effect from April 1, 2011," because of the "negative publicity of Indian poverty promoted by DFID".
India rejects aid from Britain, says it is peanuts - Economic Times
-----------
With the UK moving to cut down by half its aid to India, New Delhi on Thursday made it clear that the government wanted trade and not aid from the British government.
...
Finance Minister P Chidambaram told the media after meeting Hague, "This has been in discussion for quite some time and if they want to reduce the aid, and emphasise on trade, that's perfectly acceptable to us. We don't really need the aid...We have accepted it in the past, but I think both countries have agreed that we can emphasise on trade, rather than aid."
Trade, not aid, thrust of India-UK talks - Indian Express

[Tronic]

Immigrants & coloured people vs the US republican party.

With the addition of mob violence and street thuggery. India isn't the US, and BJP most certainly isn't the Republican Party. The consequences in India tend to be a lot more violent and ugly. That said, this thread is going on a tangent.

[Firestorm]

Sure they do, the mentality is Modi taught a certain community a 'lesson' and its all over now so lets forget it.
After all he keeps delivering the economic goods.

But at the national level there is little appetite for him. People will vote for their regional satraps and ignore him.

So you are condemning an entire state based on your understanding of their "mentality", which according to you is different from and worse than the rest of India. Very "holier than thou" aren't we?

Modi has become a convenient bogeyman who can be blamed for all ills by several parties in India whose own actions (or inaction) have been equally bad if not worse at different times. People were pointing fingers at him in the media even after the recent riots in UP. He may or may not be an absolute villain. But he sure as hell isn't the only one. Or even the biggest for that matter.

And people voting for regional satraps has nothing to do with them liking or disliking Modi. That has always been the way of elections in India. Especially in recent times. The last time a single leader caught the national attention was Rajiv Gandhi, who was riding a wave of sympathy after IG's assassination. Such support for a single leader across India hasn't been seen since and is unlikely to be seen in the near future.

EDIT:
BTW, remember Rajiv's words about the 1984 riots: "When a giant tree falls, the earth below shakes". The Sikh's were expecting an apology that they really deserved (in addition to prosecuting the culprits). Instead they received an astonishing justification masquerading as a cheap, horrible excuse. And this is the party now pontificating about Secularism and minority welfare.

And yet, RG got elected by a landslide. By bolo121's logic, we should assume that the entire country then felt that the Congress and Rajiv Gandhi taught a "certain community" a lesson.

[bolo121]

So you are condemning an entire state based on your understanding of their "mentality", which according to you is different from and worse than the rest of India. Very "holier than thou" aren't we?

Holier than thou? He has blood on his hands and Gujaratis choose to ignore it because he keeps the state developing. No putting words in my mouth now, I never mentioned anywhere that their attitude was somehow different. Its just human nature.
Its the typical justifications that people use to see what they want to see and excuse the unpleasantness.
He's a creepy fascist keep the trains running on time type, who will only get worse if given more power.

Modi has become a convenient bogeyman who can be blamed for all ills by several parties in India whose own actions (or inaction) have been equally bad if not worse at different times. People were pointing fingers at him in the media even after the recent riots in UP. He may or may not be an absolute villain. But he sure as hell isn't the only one. Or even the biggest for that matter.

So just because others have done it it somehow becomes ok that he did?

And people voting for regional satraps has nothing to do with them liking or disliking Modi. That has always been the way of elections in India. Especially in recent times. The last time a single leader caught the national attention was Rajiv Gandhi, who was riding a wave of sympathy after IG's assassination. Such support for a single leader across India hasn't been seen since and is unlikely to be seen in the near future.

Wave of support? Maybe in the north. In the rest of the country he has caught the eye of middle class India. But even then it will translate to no extra votes for BJP in any regional party controlled state.

EDIT:
BTW, remember Rajiv's words about the 1984 riots: "When a giant tree falls, the earth below shakes". The Sikh's were expecting an apology that they really deserved (in addition to prosecuting the culprits). Instead they received an astonishing justification masquerading as a cheap, horrible excuse. And this is the party now pontificating about Secularism and minority welfare.
And yet, RG got elected by a landslide. By bolo121's logic, we should assume that the entire country then felt that the Congress and Rajiv Gandhi taught a "certain community" a lesson.

Faulty sentence. Where did i express any congress leanings that you choose to vent your rajiv hate on me?
But behaviour of the nation was the same. People voted for congress and rajiv inspite of the killings because they at one level or the other sympathised.