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  • #31
    Originally posted by Minskaya View Post


    The are few Mosque's in Moscow, so prayers oftentimes spill out into the street. This picture is from today as Muslims fill the street celebrating the feast of Eid al-Adha. Displays such as this don't sit well with the majority ethnic Russians of the city.
    Minnie,

    I'd bet the farm that the same constituency that complains about Muslims praying in the streets is the same one that doesn't want more mosques built.

    We have a lower level problem in Australia with the 'ghettoization' of Muslim communities in Sydney & Melbourne to a lesser extent. Often attempts to establish mosques, schools & even halal butchers are met with a flurry of planning objections & even public protests.

    I'm betting the problem in Russia is much worse.
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    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Goatboy View Post
      Chechnya is as Chechen as Japan is Japanese. 99% Chechen vs 1% Russian. Strategic imperialism, nothing more. With that in mind, the sooner the EU rips the Ukraine away from Russia's paws, the better for the region.
      In 1989 25% of population in Chenchya were Russians. After years of "independence" and ethnic cleansing tens of thousends were murdered, enslaved and forced to run from Chechnya.

      My guess is you want the same fate for 40% of population of Ukraine?
      Winter is coming.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
        Minnie,

        I'd bet the farm that the same constituency that complains about Muslims praying in the streets is the same one that doesn't want more mosques built.

        We have a lower level problem in Australia with the 'ghettoization' of Muslim communities in Sydney & Melbourne to a lesser extent. Often attempts to establish mosques, schools & even halal butchers are met with a flurry of planning objections & even public protests.

        I'm betting the problem in Russia is much worse.
        BF,

        Living in more 'ghettoized' community, I can echo this...

        It was not a problem a mosque to be erected, it is not a problem during festivities some of the most frequent streets to get closed and animals to get slaughtered (sanitary issues aside).

        The problem is when the right to erect a temple violates my right to sleep or nap, because the mosques are playing the loudspeakers at dusk, launch time, dinner time, bed time. Also, there is a problem when none of the organizers of religious gatherings bothers to clean up the mess behind.

        This goes on both sides, but however people feel the churches bells are silent compared to mosques speakers. Also, when it is Easter, it's the communal workers job to clean the mess ;) See, we are just people.

        Good luck sorting this mess with the long arm of the law. There will be instant clashes.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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        • #34
          As many on this board know, some different cultures just don't get along very well and it's foolish to pretend they do. Culture clash really rubs on folks after awhile and they get fed up with accommodation.
          sigpic

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          • #35
            Originally posted by NUS View Post
            In 1989 25% of population in Chenchya were Russians. After years of "independence" and ethnic cleansing tens of thousends were murdered, enslaved and forced to run from Chechnya.

            My guess is you want the same fate for 40% of population of Ukraine?
            Im not trying to be insensitive but the Russians are better off out of there. From Yermolov in the 19th century to Putin in the 20th and 21st, Russia has had a bloody and brutal history of suppression and mass murder in Chechnya.

            And im not particularly convinced that if Russia were to call quits on Chechnya and Dagestan that it would have a 'domino' effect all over Russia. Many non-Slavic minorities from different parts of that country like the Ossetians and Tartars appear to have no separatist tendencies and even could be considered pro-Russian Federation.

            Kadyrov has already practically turned Chechnya into an Islamic state anyway and Chechen identity and culture has been unaturally Arabo-Islamized over the past decade taking them even further away from Russia which is re-finding its Eastern Othordoxy. Genuine integration with Russia and Russians just doesnt look like it'll ever happen. Bloodshed certainly will continue however as long as this forced but clearly mutually unwanted embrace between the two peoples continues.

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            • #36
              Getting out means getting out of Daghestan as well.It also guarantees a restart of the war,on a wider scale.Kadyrov is a bastard,but he does not allow Al Zawahiri a safehaven.And right now,his ilk is the enemy of both Russia and the West.And it will be a while until that will change.
              Those who know don't speak
              He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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              • #37
                Originally posted by 1980s View Post
                And im not particularly convinced that if Russia were to call quits on Chechnya and Dagestan that it would have a 'domino' effect all over Russia. Many non-Slavic minorities from different parts of that country like the Ossetians and Tartars appear to have no separatist tendencies and even could be considered pro-Russian Federation.
                That is what they said about Yugoslavia and look at the mess. Trust me, the domino effect is very real and it would be far more bloody than the Balkan conflict.

                Kadyrov has already practically turned Chechnya into an Islamic state anyway and Chechen identity and culture has been unaturally Arabo-Islamized over the past decade taking them even further away from Russia which is re-finding its Eastern Othordoxy. Genuine integration with Russia and Russians just doesnt look like it'll ever happen. Bloodshed certainly will continue however as long as this forced but clearly mutually unwanted embrace between the two peoples continues.
                Perhaps but at least the perception remains that Chechnya is part of Russia and any attempts of separation would breed more violence. Now Chechens have learned the virtues of patience. At the rate and the direction that Russia is going in, Chechnya can wait after 10 - 20 years (depending how long Putin lasts) and start demanding more money in which Russia would be in no position to comply and Chechnya can threaten instability. At that point. Russia will apply the cost and benefit analysis and conclude that it is not worth keeping Chechnya and make a different deal with Chechnya or just let it go.

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