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  • #16
    Originally posted by farhan_9909 View Post
    Well No,I can easily differentiate between a ak74u made somewhere else and a made in Pakistan(darra or anywhere else in kpk)
    Won't argue with you. You obviously have more knowledge considering you tote an AKS-74U yourself.
    They are of extremely useless quality.I really doubt if PA really was to sent them,than atleast they would have given them a proper working rifle.Not these useless toys.
    They are only good within 100m range,Made of extremely uselss raw material,Not even close to the real,the imported barrels are of extremely useless quality if they still Don't have the CNC's for manufacturing them.

    While those made by POF are not for civilian(though i doubt POF makes ak-74u)
    Lol. Since they wouldn't have lasted this long with useless weapons, it seems the POF knows how to make em right.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
      Won't argue with you. You obviously have more knowledge considering you tote an AKS-74U yourself.

      Lol. Since they wouldn't have lasted this long with useless weapons, it seems the POF knows how to make em right.
      Well over here not even the local use these kind of ak-74 in the personal conflicts let alone possible terrorist going for jihad against a well trained army across the border.

      All i heard in the past week was a ghost village occupied by them and all the related stuff of crossing beyond the LOC.But the pics posted shows that they are killed within 1m(meter) of the LOC.

      It seems like IA has officially shown either old pics or all those were rumours about the ghost village and 12 days long operation.

      Most important they are killed on the indian side of the LOC but still the wires are very much intact unless they could jump over the wires which ofcourse is not possible.



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      • #18
        Originally posted by farhan_9909 View Post
        Well over here not even the local use these kind of ak-74 in the personal conflicts let alone possible terrorist going for jihad against a well trained army across the border.

        All i heard in the past week was a ghost village occupied by them and all the related stuff of crossing beyond the LOC.But the pics posted shows that they are killed within 1m(meter) of the LOC.

        It seems like IA has officially shown either old pics or all those were rumours about the ghost village and 12 days long operation.

        Most important they are killed on the indian side of the LOC but still the wires are very much intact unless they could jump over the wires which ofcourse is not possible.

        [ATTACH=CONFIG]34078[/ATTACH]

        [ATTACH=CONFIG]34079[/ATTACH]
        This not the first time we have killed these Pakistani rats crawling under barb wires and jumping over our fences.

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        • #20
          Originally posted by ambidex View Post
          This not the first time we have killed these Pakistani rats crawling under barb wires and jumping over our fences.
          No way they can crawl through these wires,jumping is also impossible unless they are ex olympic gold medal winners.Neither would pakistan send terrorist with such an useless ak-74u.

          Rather ask IA why all this drama?

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          • #21
            Originally posted by farhan_9909 View Post
            All i heard in the past week was a ghost village occupied by them and all the related stuff of crossing beyond the LOC.But the pics posted shows that they are killed within 1m(meter) of the LOC.

            It seems like IA has officially shown either old pics or all those were rumours about the ghost village and 12 days long operation.

            Most important they are killed on the indian side of the LOC but still the wires are very much intact unless they could jump over the wires which ofcourse is not possible.
            It is possible to crawl underneath the fence if you dig a little. But the process is slow and gives time for IA troops to find them, which is what happened here, and which is the reason the fence was put in, in the first place. No fence is foolproof unless it is completely electrified.

            And BTW, Keran operation ends, gunsmoke and questions hanging in the air | Firstpost

            Fresh infiltration efforts on the flanks of the Shala Bhata belt were blocked. Three terrorists were killed by the 17 Punjab regiment, some four kilometers away from Shala Bhata, and another two at Gujjardor. Four more by the 12 Garhwal along the Ratu Nar stream near Farkian. These bodies have been found — but the army’s claims of success elide over the fact they were killed outside the Shala Bhata cordon, in unconnected counter-infiltration operations
            The bodies shown are from the diversionary infiltration attempts.

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            • #22
              Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
              It is possible to crawl underneath the fence if you dig a little. But the process is slow and gives time for IA troops to find them, which is what happened here, and which is the reason the fence was put in, in the first place. No fence is foolproof unless it is completely electrified.

              And BTW, Keran operation ends, gunsmoke and questions hanging in the air | Firstpost



              The bodies shown are from the diversionary infiltration attempts.
              very much possible but there are no sign of digging neither any cut to the wires.all of them are still intact

              leave everything.From the past 2 weeks they were talking about a Ghost village being occupied by militants?But the above pic shown are within 1m of the LOC.

              Let suppose they are killed within 1m of your territory.Now what i doubt is why would they first cross before checking out field view of a possible indian soldiers?
              Or they penetrated the LOC and got killed.very hard to digest

              The other part i dont understand is this examining these pics.How the hell it took them 12days when all of them are killed this much close to the border

              7 of them are killed while initially we heard news about more than 30.?

              It seems like the IA is hiding something from both the govt and the media sources.

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              • #23
                Originally posted by farhan_9909 View Post
                very much possible but there are no sign of digging neither any cut to the wires.all of them are still intact

                leave everything.From the past 2 weeks they were talking about a Ghost village being occupied by militants?But the above pic shown are within 1m of the LOC.

                Let suppose they are killed within 1m of your territory.Now what i doubt is why would they first cross before checking out field view of a possible indian soldiers?
                Or they penetrated the LOC and got killed.very hard to digest

                The other part i dont understand is this examining these pics.How the hell it took them 12days when all of them are killed this much close to the border

                7 of them are killed while initially we heard news about more than 30.?

                It seems like the IA is hiding something from both the govt and the media sources.
                Did you bother to read the article or even the part I quoted? The bodies don't belong to the terrorists from the original force. These were smaller infiltration attempts made a few kilometers away to distract the IA troops who had engaged the main force near Shala Bhata.

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                • #24
                  Originally posted by farhan_9909 View Post
                  Well No,I can easily differentiate between a ak74u made somewhere else and a made in Pakistan(darra or anywhere else in kpk)

                  They are of extremely useless quality.I really doubt if PA really was to sent them,than atleast they would have given them a proper working rifle.Not these useless toys.
                  They are only good within 100m range,Made of extremely uselss raw material,Not even close to the real,the imported barrels are of extremely useless quality if they still Don't have the CNC's for manufacturing them.

                  While those made by POF are not for civilian(though i doubt POF makes ak-74u)
                  Most of the weapons captured from Pak infiltrators are Chinese made, not products of the tribal cottage industry. As for your claim to be able to tell the build of those guns by merely looking at the pics provided; we both know how credible that assessment is..

                  I have seen my share of Ak series and I can tell you that there is no way in hell I can tell the make of those guns from the hazy pics provided.
                  Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                  -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                    BTW, Tronic, I had posted this: http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/cen...tml#post933675 a few days back for you and others who were excited about the talks. Don't know if you read it. Posting it here, since there is a new thread now...
                    Yes, I had read it, and I failed to see any reasonable point as to why the talks shouldn't take place.

                    Tronic talks about being vigilant and "hitting back" without really delving into the difficulties that the IA faces. The IA will always be on the defensive whilst we continue to merely react to such incidents and fight solely on our side of the border. Unless we take the fight into their territory these incidents will continue to happen. And you can't do something like that if you are conducting "peace talks" and discussing CBMs. Not unless you are willing to shamelessly lie about your soldiers being involved and refuse to accept their dead bodies like the PA did during Kargil and continues to do now.
                    And yet, IA has crossed the border and hit back several times over. They can continue to do so. "Peace talks" need not always have to result in discussion over CBMs. Put that on the back burner. I'd rather talk about expanding trade and business ties, and leave the retaliation for the IA to met out in POK.

                    As for not accepting Indian bodies... It's a real shame but there are dozens of all too real Indian spies rotting in Pakistani prisons which India refuses to accept till date.
                    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                    • #26
                      Thanks to Indian Express.
                      Clears alot of doubt

                      On September 26, as a pitched battle raged between three terrorists who had raided an armoured unit of the 9 Corps in Samba and angry officers who even used main battle tanks to dislodge them, a strong statement was made miles away in Srinagar.

                      Lt Gen Gurmeet Singh, commander of the Srinagar-based 15 Corps, said that the Army had thwarted a major infiltration bid in Kupwara's Keran sector three days earlier.

                      The numbers he presented were alarming — several dozen militants had tried to sneak in and the Army had shot dead 10-12, with their bodies visible in Indian territory.

                      Just this would have made it one of the biggest such bids in years. However, the Army went a step ahead to say that 30-40 terrorists had been trapped inside Indian territory and troops had taken positions to cordon them off.

                      More than two weeks later, the Army has called off the operations and no bodies have been recovered from the cordoned-off area.

                      With the operations called off, the following are the claims that have been made and the facts of the encounter and its repercussions:

                      Claim: More than two dozen militants were trapped in Keran and took over an abandoned village on the LoC.

                      Fact: While it was claimed 30-40 militants tried to cross over on September 23 night near Shalbhatti village, there has been no proof the village had been captured. Much of the abandoned village lies on the other side of the LoC and a few structures on the Indian side had been used by militants to take shelter against firing by Indian troops. The gun battle lasted for at least 5-7 days but the infiltrators retreated subsequently. After the initial sighting on September 23, there was never any concrete evidence that dozens of militants were holed up. Also, there was no recorded ceasefire violation in the area by the Pakistani army.

                      As things stand, the Army is in control of the few structures in the village on the Indian side but no bodies have been recovered. As Army Chief Gen Bikram Singh said, there was never any attempt to capture Indian territory. He termed it an infiltration, not an intrusion.

                      Claim:
                      Twin attacks happened on September 26. While three militants attacked Samba, 30-40 infiltrators tried to enter from Keran sector.


                      Fact
                      : No proof yet to indicate that the two incidents were coordinated. In fact, they were separated both by geography and time. The Samba attack took place on September 26, by three militants who crossed over the International Border in Harinagar the night before. The Keran bid took place days earlier, on the night of September 23.

                      Claim
                      : The Army killed 10-12 terrorists in the initial gun battle.

                      Fact: No proof yet that any militant was killed in the initial gun battle in Keran. While a strong cordon was laid after four Indian soldiers were injured to ensure no one entered further inside, no body has been discovered even now. Initial claims by Lt Gen Singh that 10-12 bodies were spotted lying in the area were changed later to suggest the number was indicated via radio intercepts of agents and handlers in Pakistan. Fact is that two weeks after the encounter and extensive combing operations, not a single body has been recovered from the Shalbhatti area. Theory that bodies have been taken back by militants also not credible as the difficult terrain, high altitude and tight cordon by Indian troops would have made this next to impossible.

                      Claim
                      : A logistics line was established by the terrorists who held territory.


                      Fact
                      : While radio intercepts suggested a supply line could be established to help terrorists who were engaged in the gun battle, there has been no evidence that they got supplies from across the border. In fact, after the initial gun battle, the terrorists are believed to have escaped at the first opportunity, hence the absence of arms or bodies even after multiple combing operations.

                      Claim
                      : Several firearms have been recovered and eight militants have been killed in Shalbhatti encounter.

                      Fact
                      : While there is no proof of the claimed kills on September 26, it is a fact that eight terrorists have been killed in the Keran sector in the past few days. These kills have, however, not taken place in the Shalbhatti area where terrorists were claimed to be holed up. Three terrorists were shot dead while crossing over in the Gujjardoor area Friday while four were shot dead in the Fateh Gali area Saturday and a cache of arms and supplies recovered. These militants had been a part of the 30-40 who had tried to enter from Shalbhatti on September 23. However, all weapons recovered and bodies found in the past two weeks have not been from the area.


                      Claim
                      : A gun battle went on in Shalbhatti for two weeks and troops were engaged in a stand-off with holed in terrorists.


                      Fact: There was no exchange of fire in the area for almost a week now. All militants either escaped or retreated back. There was no verifiable firing from the militants' side for a week and Indian troops had not fired for the past few days. Simply put, after an initial gun battle in which four Indian jawans were injured and an unknown number of terrorists were hit, there was no major operation in the Shalbhatti area. The two operations in which kills occurred were in other parts of the Keran sector, 4-20 km away.

                      Former Northern Army Commander Lt Gen H S Panag has called the Keran incident the "big operation that never was".

                      "10-15 terrorists with an equal number of porters infiltrated due to surveillance patrols lapse. Exaggerated report by unit to cover lapse. Panic reaction by the 286 Brigade (under which Keran Sector falls) converted to cordon to trap the terrorists. Terrorists slipped away, media went in a tizzy," the officer has tweeted

                      Army winds up Keran ops leaving gaps between its claims and what's on ground - Indian Express

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                      • #27
                        Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
                        Did you bother to read the article or even the part I quoted? The bodies don't belong to the terrorists from the original force. These were smaller infiltration attempts made a few kilometers away to distract the IA troops who had engaged the main force near Shala Bhata.
                        Source Indian express

                        Fact: There was no exchange of fire in the area for almost a week now. All militants either escaped or retreated back. There was no verifiable firing from the militants' side for a week and Indian troops had not fired for the past few days. Simply put, after an initial gun battle in which four Indian jawans were injured and an unknown number of terrorists were hit, there was no major operation in the Shalbhatti area. The two operations in which kills occurred were in other parts of the Keran sector, 4-20 km away.
                        The so Called operation and those big claims of ghost village were all a make up drama's.I hope the IA should atleast be Open to the public and not Go into tricks like Politicians.
                        No wonder they were almost slient for 2 weeks and than came up with this

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                        • #28
                          Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                          Most of the weapons captured from Pak infiltrators are Chinese made, not products of the tribal cottage industry. As for your claim to be able to tell the build of those guns by merely looking at the pics provided; we both know how credible that assessment is..

                          I have seen my share of Ak series and I can tell you that there is no way in hell I can tell the make of those guns from the hazy pics provided.
                          Ak-74u are made only in Darra/Local markets.POF dont have the license.Neither does PA has ever imported Ak-74U or usually any other assault rifle from China.
                          Unless you believe just for odd militants they brought ak-74u from China.

                          Well one can very easily.only if the pics are of slightly higher resolution and better quality.The material built of one made in darra would be different from either a product of POF or imported from China.

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                          • #29
                            Whether they had what type of guns and where it came is all moot point. Pigs crossed the fence from pakisan side. They were killed.
                            It is so. It cant be otherwise

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                            • #30
                              Originally posted by farhan_9909 View Post
                              Ak-74u are made only in Darra/Local markets.POF dont have the license.Neither does PA has ever imported Ak-74U or usually any other assault rifle from China.
                              Unless you believe just for odd militants they brought ak-74u from China.
                              I said Chinese made, not POF built. There are plenty on the black market.

                              Dera/tribal cottage industry weapons have nothing to do with the Kashmiri militants, which have been trained and supplied by the Pakistani army (rogue or official, whichever you choose) over the last 2+ decades. Even the Taliban's mainstay weapons are not products of the tribal industry but are leftover imports from the '80s, which are maintained by the use of cheap replacement parts from the tribal arms industry.

                              I posted a pic of killed Kashmiri militants earlier, and here (http://i.imgur.com/gl1NFJS.jpg), you can see that the kit on these militants is nothing like what you would find on the Taliban.
                              Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                              -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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