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Thread: General Giap is dead

  1. #76
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linh_My View Post
    Read a book named, I remember, "The Devil's Brigade" that was an autobiography. It is possibly this book, Amazon.com: Devil's Guard eBook: George R. Elford: Kindle Store
    Nice literature.But it's simply untrue.There were lots of Waffen SS men in the Legion Etrangere,but they were in the regular units,under French officers.Regardless of previous rank,you start as a Legionnaire,then you work your way up.Up to 1/10 of the officers come from the ranks.
    The impact of ex-Waffen SS,ex-Falschirmjaeger etc... was significant and it improved an already formidable fighting force.Particularly the Legion paras.

    Enjoy this nice march Légion Étrangère - Le Diable marche avec nous - Full HD - YouTube You can trace it to another Legion.The Kondor sort of Legion

    But,before everyone jumps around,the LE is a sort of mirror for every problem in Europe.After WW1 it was filled with Russians,the good sort.After WW2 it was the turn of the Germans.After 1956 it was an increase of Hungarians and after 1989 there was a plethora of Romanians,Russians and other Easterners.
    In the 70's and 80's there were lots of Yugoslavs.These guys promptly deserted when the war started at home.Plenty reached proeminent positions in the Croatian and Serbian armies.Thus,you have Legion traditions in these armies.
    What comes around,goes around.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    In your counterfactual, the Vietnamese nationalists enlist Chinese (i.e. KMT) aid to set up a government. The Chinese civil war spills over into Vietnam, and past humiliations revisit Vietnam. Remember that Ho Chi Minh was far more afraid of the Chinese than he ever was of the French or the Americans.
    " Past humiliations ", which ones ? you have wrong knowledge of Vietnamese history in relation with China . I would say , you got a falsified version , concocted from colonialists. The reality , Vietnamese and Chinese are like English and US . I will elaborate later .
    " Ho chi Minh was afraid of the Chinese " is not supported by historical facts , Ho 's numerous contacts with Chi com during the 30s and 40s and Chinese help in beating French & USA belie your wrong assumptions .

  3. #78
    Officer of Engineers
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    I have been waiting for more from you ... but explain the 1st and 2nd Sino-Vietnam Wars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    I have been waiting for more from you ... but explain the 1st and 2nd Sino-Vietnam Wars.
    elaboratingx
    _ I was waiting reply from cataphract before elaborating .
    _ about the sino- VN wars , before replying , I wish to say , I know only of the 1989 sino VN war

  5. #80
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    " Past humiliations ", which ones ? you have wrong knowledge of Vietnamese history in relation with China . I would say , you got a falsified version , concocted from colonialists. The reality , Vietnamese and Chinese are like English and US . I will elaborate later .
    " Ho chi Minh was afraid of the Chinese " is not supported by historical facts , Ho 's numerous contacts with Chi com during the 30s and 40s and Chinese help in beating French & USA belie your wrong assumptions .
    Ho Chi Minh was afraid enough of the Chinese to prefer a French return in 1946 to an ongoing Chinese presence. He is reported to have remarked that he would rather smell 'French shit' for a short time than 'Chinese shit' for a long time. Then there was China's refusal to back Ho's desire to unite Vietnam at the Geneva Conference & later to push for nation wide elections in 1956. he may have needed Chinese help, but there wasn't much trust there. Note how few Chinese combat troops were ever in Vietnam, though at times they would have been sorely needed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Ho Chi Minh was afraid enough of the Chinese to prefer a French return in 1946 to an ongoing Chinese presence. He is reported to have remarked that he would rather smell 'French shit' for a short time than 'Chinese shit' for a long time. Then there was China's refusal to back Ho's desire to unite Vietnam at the Geneva Conference & later to push for nation wide elections in 1956. he may have needed Chinese help, but there wasn't much trust there. Note how few Chinese combat troops were ever in Vietnam, though at times they would have been sorely needed.
    _ the remark "he would rather smell 'French shit' for a short time than 'Chinese shit' for a long time " is a concoction , made up by colonialists . The facts :
    when HCM founded the Indochinese communist party , Chi com leaders were patronizing the ceremony ; VN Kuo min Tang was modeled from Chinese KMT ; Vo nguyen giap and other VN officers got military training from Chi com ; the constant , enormous , steady military help given by Chi com from 1949 until 1975 , Chi com advisers were steadily present everywhere during alll these years , specially at Dien bien Phu . HCM wrote poems and spoke chinese fluently , and so and so

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    elaboratingx
    _ I was waiting reply from cataphract before elaborating .
    _ about the sino- VN wars , before replying , I wish to say , I know only of the 1989 sino VN war
    1979 1st Sino-VN War. 1984 2nd Sino-VN War.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    1979 1st Sino-VN War. 1984 2nd Sino-VN War.
    The main Sino- VN war occurred in 1979 ( not in 1989 ) , it lasted 3 weeks . Afterwards , there were sevearl skirmishes , an important one in April 84 . I confess , I 'm not well versed in recent VN history and would not contribute much in that topic .

  9. #84
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    _ the remark "he would rather smell 'French shit' for a short time than 'Chinese shit' for a long time " is a concoction , made up by colonialists . The facts :
    when HCM founded the Indochinese communist party , Chi com leaders were patronizing the ceremony ; VN Kuo min Tang was modeled from Chinese KMT ; Vo nguyen giap and other VN officers got military training from Chi com ; the constant , enormous , steady military help given by Chi com from 1949 until 1975 , Chi com advisers were steadily present everywhere during alll these years , specially at Dien bien Phu . HCM wrote poems and spoke chinese fluently , and so and so
    OK, so anything you don't like is going to be dismissed as 'made up by colonialists'. Convenient. Sort of makes any further discussion pointless, though the tone of your replies so far suggests that was probably always the case.


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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    OK, so anything you don't like is going to be dismissed as 'made up by colonialists'. Convenient. Sort of makes any further discussion pointless, though the tone of your replies so far suggests that was probably always the case.
    Seems you have not read my back up with historical facts . These facts "are not cohereht with the remark " eating or sniffing s.... " . What do you have to back up your subjective opinion of the reality of the validity of the remark .
    In the past , when VN was first attacked by the colonialists , VN called Manchu China for help and I repeat , thereafter from 1930 to 1975 , VN ese ofall venues made appeal and got help from Chinese , nationalists or communists . Does all that sound as if Vnamese are mortally afraid of Chunese ?

  11. #86
    Officer of Engineers
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    The 1984 action was deemed a war because it settled the border controls in favour of the Chinese. However, a mere 4 years between the end of the American-Vietnam War to the 1st Sino-VN War. Something wasn't right long before then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    The 1984 action was deemed a war because it settled the border controls in favour of the Chinese. However, a mere 4 years between the end of the American-Vietnam War to the 1st Sino-VN War. Something wasn't right long before then.
    So , that makes a most serious dent to Sino-Viet peaceful ( and friendly ? ) coexistence since the Ming domination (1405-1427 )
    Well , that's quite nothing compared to the humiliation of Mexico along with the loss of half of its territory from start of 20 th century and today Mexico's semblance of independance at the hands of the USA

  13. #88
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Dude,your WAB lifespan isn't increasing with every nonsense you write.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Dude,your WAB lifespan isn't increasing with every nonsense you write.
    I hoped for serious discussion with documented back up not low level rantings . Flattery or invective won'get you anywhere .

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimini View Post
    " Past humiliations ", which ones ? you have wrong knowledge of Vietnamese history in relation with China . I would say , you got a falsified version , concocted from colonialists. The reality , Vietnamese and Chinese are like English and US . I will elaborate later .
    " Ho chi Minh was afraid of the Chinese " is not supported by historical facts , Ho 's numerous contacts with Chi com during the 30s and 40s and Chinese help in beating French & USA belie your wrong assumptions .
    Hi, sorry I'm late to the party, I've been busy with real life. I may be repeating some of what has already been said, but since you specifically want an answer from me, here goes:

    1. Past humiliations: The occupation of Vietnam by Imperial China for over 1000 years and the resentment Vietnamese harbour arising from it.

    2. Ho Chi Minh was afraid of the Chinese: HCM was hardly the people's leader in Mao's style. He was educated and worked in France, for starters. He also was typical of the nationalist leaders that grew prominent in the 1940s South East Asia. The fear/loathing of Chinese is a direct outcome of the nationalist experiment in SEA, where it was your country vs your neighbour vs their neighbour. A similarly antagonist relationship is found between Vietnam/Cambodia, Thailand/Cambodia, Malaysia/Indonesia, etc, even today.

    If you are asking me specifically about HCM's Chinese views, my sources are this book: http://www.amazon.ca/Forgotten-Wars-...+forgotten+war, and the posts of Bigfella and Officer of Engineers on this board. I consider the two of them an authority on this subject, my grasp of SEA history is amateurish at best

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