Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
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Afghanistan, US, China, India and Pakistan - A Genuine Interview
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostSurrendering 100 miles of your own territory only to learn that it meant squat all is scared shitless.
This is not the Zhenbao Island you are talking about, right?
Zhenbao Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Main force concentrations were 100 miles behind the border, meaning that Soviet forces must travel 100 miles into China before they can engage Chinese strong forces. The idea was to stretch the Soviet LOC. The 1979 Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan showed that 100 miles meant squat all to the Soviets which spurred the PLA onto a modernization program.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostMain force concentrations were 100 miles behind the border, meaning that Soviet forces must travel 100 miles into China before they can engage Chinese strong forces. The idea was to stretch the Soviet LOC. The 1979 Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan showed that 100 miles meant squat all to the Soviets which spurred the PLA onto a modernization program.
To this day, PLA don't guard borders. It's the PAP's and in the old days, militia's duty.
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Originally posted by cdude View PostMost if not all of the division level headquarters are located in major population centers. And very few population centers are within 100 miles of Soviet border. I think it's just simple logistics.
What's more, that 100 miles meant nothing to the Soviets.
The simple fact is that the battle was going to be in Chinese cities and not the border area ... if those Chinese cities survived nukes and fire bombing (doubtful).
Originally posted by cdude View PostTo this day, PLA don't guard borders. It's the PAP's and in the old days, militia's duty.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostSoviet garrisons are even further away but that does not change the fact that the PLA was counting on that extra 100 miles to stretch the Soviet LOCs and was planning to surrendering 100 miles of Chinese territory.
What's more, that 100 miles meant nothing to the Soviets.
The simple fact is that the battle was going to be in Chinese cities and not the border area ... if those Chinese cities survived nukes and fire bombing (doubtful).
You know whats scared shitless? Gaddafi gave up nuclear weapon program was scared shitless. Did Mao or Deng fly to Moscow begging for peace? They didn't even bother talk to Moscow. They designed a workable strategy that in retrospect probably the best they could do. Nothing cowardly about that.
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostThe border area has been agreed to and both sides will maintain their formations 100 miles from the border.
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Originally posted by cdude View PostWell, the China in the mess of cultural revolution against the Soviet Union at her peak? Yeah, 100 miles sound about right. It might mean nothing to the Soviets, it made a lot of difference for PLA logistics. China simply didn't have the roads and trucks to support an inch-by-inch defense against the Russians.
Originally posted by cdude View PostYou know whats scared shitless? Gaddafi gave up nuclear weapon program was scared shitless. Did Mao or Deng fly to Moscow begging for peace? They didn't even bother talk to Moscow. They designed a workable strategy that in retrospect probably the best they could do. Nothing cowardly about that.
Originally posted by cdude View PostNot just borders with Russia, PAP and provincial military districts patrol all the borders. Not the PLA, at least not the hardcore PLA.
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostOh baloney, the Chinese were even prepared to retreat. When the enemy attacks, we retreat. When the enemy stalls, we harrass. When the enemy retreats, we attack. Translation, the Chinese were going to lose the war well before they can start fighting. Lop Nor and Peking were going to be nuclear fireballs while the 38 and 39 GAs would be running straight south.
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostZhou En-Lai went begging on hands and knees to the Americans to form an alliance. That's scared shitless.
What did Zhou give up to be friend with Nixon?
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Originally posted by cdude View PostIf I gave you 4 million farmers with AK's plus some old tanks here and there, 10 nukes against a military force with hundreds of thousands of tanks and tens thousands of nukes, what would you do?
Originally posted by cdude View PostWake me up if anyone could think of anything better. The best case scenario is to draw the Soviets into the "people's war" which is what happened in Afghanistan.
Originally posted by cdude View PostIf you've ever seen a picture of Zhou, you would know he's not capable of begging on both hands as his left hand was disabled.
Originally posted by cdude View PostI am sure he wanted to make an alliance with Nixon. That's just being smart strategically.
Originally posted by cdude View PostWhat did Zhou give up to be friend with Nixon?
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Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostI would not piss off the Soviets and start a war in the first place. That's being idiotic strategically.
The best case scenario is to abandon Maoism and adopt Soviet economic practices minus their military expenditures ... which is exactly what DXP did with the Americans.
The begging was real.
Also Deng's economic reform was way more radical than the Soviet model
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View PostHe didn't have a choice. The PLA had determined that the Soviets were going to start a war to take Northern China and nuke the rest. Nixon was Zhou's only hope of avoiding this war.
Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
87 divisions. With China's reapproachment, China's participation in any future NATO-Warsaw Pact conflict was guarranteed. China cannot afford the Warsaw Pact to win. China would be next ... or first if Moscow decides to get rid of this monkey off her back before she takes on NATO.
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Originally posted by cdude View PostI agree with your first 2 bullets. But I don't buy the begging part. Begging happens when the other side has very little to gain, you are saying the US has nothing to gain allying with China? Then why did Nixon make it a big deal and visited Mao? Obviously it was a win-win situation and both sides benefited tremendously.
Originally posted by cdude View PostAlso Deng's economic reform was way more radical than the Soviet model
Originally posted by cdude View PostApparently the Soviets was not as crazy as Mao thought they were. Or was it the China-US alliance stopped Soviets' plan?
Originally posted by cdude View PostWas the guarantee an oral one or was there any agreement signed?
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