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Thread: Afghanistan, US, China, India and Pakistan - A Genuine Interview

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    So you are tacitly saying that China can print out dollars?
    You are using your imagination a bit too much.

    I will say it again India spent billions on Afghanistan to mess with Pakistan while her poorest 50% starve on the street, have no medical care and education to survive. This has nothing to do with the US, Russia, or China. Nobody seriously asked India to "invest" in Afghanistan while receiving billions of dollars of aids herself every year. It's a case of mis-allocation of capitals.
    Last edited by cdude; 01 Oct 13, at 02:03.

  2. #17
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdude View Post
    I will say it again India spent billions on Afghanistan to mess with Pakistan
    To mess with Pakistan, or to ensure that incidents like IC 814 are not repeated?

    while her poorest 50% starve on the street, have no medical care and education to survive. This has nothing to do with the US, Russia, or China. Nobody seriously asked India to "invest" in Afghanistan while receiving billions of dollars of aids herself every year. It's a case of mis-allocation of capitals.
    It's not mis-allocation of funds when the government has the electoral approval of the Indian people in deciding foreign policy. One of the good things about having a democratic setup.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    To mess with Pakistan, or to ensure that incidents like IC 814 are not repeated?

    It's not mis-allocation of funds when the government has the electoral approval of the Indian people in deciding foreign policy. One of the good things about having a democratic setup.
    I watched the Mumbai'08 episode. Your country looked un-prepared and did nothing to the invaders, really. You can talk the talk, but with backings from both the US and China, I don't see Pakistan fears your country one bit. So keep throwing money at your 10 consulates in Afghanistan, will be rewarded.

    As for your second statement, it sounds like something out of a confused mouth who has not idea what it's talking about.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdude View Post
    You are using your imagination a bit too much.

    I will say it again India spent billions on Afghanistan to mess with Pakistan while her poorest 50% starve on the street, have no medical care and education to survive. This has nothing to do with the US, Russia, or China. Nobody seriously asked India to "invest" in Afghanistan while receiving billions of dollars of aids herself every year. It's a case of mis-allocation of capitals.
    Sorry to barge in on your intellectual discourse but why do you think there's a miss allocation of capitals in this case? India's aid to Afghanistan stands at about USD 10.8 Billion as of now (over the course of a decade), to give context the centrally sanctioned expenditure for the food security bill and the right to education bill alone add up to about USD 58.2 Billion.

    In fact, this years union budget has allocated about USD 20 Billion for various government funded civil programs, this alone is 20 times the annual expenditure allocated for Afghanistan.
    Last edited by DarthSiddius; 01 Oct 13, at 02:42.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdude View Post
    I think you have to define "scared shitless". Moving your strategic assets away from the frontline is not "scared shitless", it's being smart.
    Surrendering 100 miles of your own territory only to learn that it meant squat all is scared shitless.

  6. #21
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdude View Post
    I watched the Mumbai'08 episode. Your country looked un-prepared and did nothing to the invaders, really.
    It looked unprepared, because it was unprepared.

    You can talk the talk, but with backings from both the US and China, I don't see Pakistan fears your country one bit. So keep throwing money at your 10 consulates in Afghanistan, will be rewarded.
    I don't really know how to respond to this, because Pakistan not fearing India is actually a good thing. Then you mention the consulates, which are the sore point on the Pakistani side, and I'm left looking for the point you're trying to make?

    As for your second statement, it sounds like something out of a confused mouth who has not idea what it's talking about.
    Mind quoting which statement you're inferring to, so I can make things clearer for you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthSiddius View Post
    Sorry to barge in on your intellectual discourse but why do you think there's a miss allocation of capitals in this case? India's aid to Afghanistan stands at about USD 10.8 Billion as of now (over the course of a decade), to give context the centrally sanctioned expenditure for the food security bill and the right to education bill alone add up to about USD 58.2 Billion.

    In fact, this years union budget has allocated about USD 20 Billion for various government funded civil programs, this alone is 20 times the annual expenditure allocated for Afghanistan.
    Don't bring your silly facts into this rhetoric fueled rage/ sarcasm/ whatever it is, or he will post videos of Chinese roads in Tibet
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    It looked unprepared, because it was unprepared.



    I don't really know how to respond to this, because Pakistan not fearing India is actually a good thing. Then you mention the consulates, which are the sore point on the Pakistani side, and I'm left looking for the point you're trying to make?



    Mind quoting which statement you're inferring to, so I can make things clearer for you?
    "It's not mis-allocation of funds when the government has the electoral approval of the Indian people in deciding foreign policy."

    You are saying because the government is elected, it cannot misallocate funds. This is utterly nonsense.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdude View Post
    I think you have to define "scared shitless". Moving your strategic assets away from the frontline is not "scared shitless", it's being smart.
    The history is clear. Both Peking and Islamabad went begging to Washington for protection. They were both scared shitless.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdude View Post
    "It's not mis-allocation of funds when the government has the electoral approval of the Indian people in deciding foreign policy."

    You are saying because the government is elected, it cannot misallocate funds. This is utterly nonsense.
    To give you a clearer picture; A Chief Minister has been forced to step down by the people in India for not spending enough on security. The ruling party came under intense pressure by the people for not adequately funding the defence forces, and an Indian ex-PM, IK Gujral, is hounded out to this day for slashing RAW's budget and ending several of it's overseas operations. Therefore, it is not "misallocation" of funds when the government does what the people voted them in to do.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    To give you a clearer picture; A Chief Minister has been forced to step down by the people in India for not spending enough on security. The ruling party came under intense pressure by the people for not adequately funding the defence forces, and an Indian ex-PM, IK Gujral, is hounded out to this day for slashing RAW's budget and ending several of it's overseas operations. Therefore, it is not "misallocation" of funds when the government does what the people voted them in to do.
    Nonsense, so you had a referendum to decide how much money to throw at Afghanistan to mess with Pakistan?

    It's in your government's discretionary to spend money. And that money could've been used in more productive places instead of getting no returns (even worse, you get more trouble waiting to happen when the US pulls out).

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by anil View Post
    For a change, here is one NO BULLSHIT interview about Afghanistan, US, China, India and Pakistan
    ------------------------

    Q: But why would the United States want to do this?

    A: Why not? If we make a deal with Pakistan, the Taliban will not shoot at our troops and we can leave peacefully. India, on the other hand, does not play a role as a global power so why should we take it seriously.

    Q: A number of US commentators in recent times have suggested that Pakistan’s obsession with Afghanistan can be resolved if the Kashmir issue is sorted out once and for all with India. Do you believe that a Kashmir “solution” will end Pakistan’s preoccupation with Afghanistan?

    A: Obama’s Washington wants Kashmir resolved in Pakistan’s favour —Afghanistan or no Afghanistan.
    India is so passive that the United States feels it can pressure India to make concessions in Kashmir so that the US can get a better deal with Pakistan. Kashmir should not be on the menu but it is. Large swathes of Siberian territory owned by Russia are claimed by China but the United States never dares to tell Russia to cede any territory to China so that the US gets a better economic deal with China. But the state department does think that India can be pressured to compromise on Kashmir and thereby secure a better deal for Washington with the Pakistanis. Such a thing would be inconceivable if India was a world power.

    When Pakistani terrorists attacked the India parliament, the United States told India that it dare not attack Pakistan. India has brought this upon itself by being passive. It is fighting for crumbs in Afghanistan.
    The US has repeatedly tried to intervene in Kashmir, but our babus, to their credit, have prevented this from happening so far. This guy seriously underestimates our MEA mandarins. I also disagree with his impression of Karzai. Karzai is a sleazy scumbag, but not at all a nobody. You don't retain the throne in Afghanistan for 12 years by being a nobody. He is a smart customer, and India and US have to work with him, whether we like it or not. Come 2014, he won't be pushed aside by the Pakistanis that easily.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdude View Post
    Nonsense, so you had a referendum to decide how much money to throw at Afghanistan to mess with Pakistan?

    It's in your government's discretionary to spend money. And that money could've been used in more productive places instead of getting no returns (even worse, you get more trouble waiting to happen when the US pulls out).
    Not a referendum, but still a hell of a lot more say than any single one of their neighbours.

    Indians get what they vote for. I wonder what makes you so concerned about India's "unproductive" spending.
    Last edited by Tronic; 01 Oct 13, at 04:06.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cataphract View Post
    You don't retain the throne in Afghanistan for 12 years by being a nobody.
    He's the mayor of Kabul.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdude View Post
    None of your strategic planners saw this coming on their drawing board? I wonder what they were thinking when they decided it's a good idea to throw billions of dollars into Afghanistan.
    In 1965 indo-pak war, india lost a part of kashmir to pakistan and along with it a direct land route to afghanistan. This event in 65 was enough to expel india out of afghanistan forever. Whether this was foreseen strategic machiavellianism by china/pak or a coincidence, we don't know.

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