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Thread: US - Iran: Peace talks possible

  1. #61

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    Lot of feel-good being tossed about but it's still about the essance of "trust but verify".

    For the Iranians yet another opportunity to bargain their way out of a growing mess. The sanctions regime is having some impact. Clearly. How much remains to be seen at the bargaining table if/when matters come to that.
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  2. #62
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minskaya View Post
    Fars (the official Iranian news agency) says that the CNN translation of Iranian President Hassan Rouhani's comments to Christiane Amanpour were embellished and incorrect. An independent translation commissioned by the Wall Street Journal also says that Mr. Rouhani's comments were mistranslated by CNN.

    Fars: CNN Fabricates Iranian President's Remarks about Holocaust
    I don't know enough about farsnews to know if they are any more trustworthy than CNN on the translation issue. This, however, is their translation:

    "I have said before that I am not a historian and historians should specify, state and explain the aspects of historical events, but generally we fully condemn any kind of crime committed against humanity throughout the history, including the crime committed by the Nazis both against the Jews and non-Jews, the same way that if today any crime is committed against any nation or any religion or any people or any belief, we condemn that crime and genocide. Therefore, what the Nazis did is condemned, (but) the aspects that you talk about, clarification of these aspects is a duty of the historians and researchers, I am not a history scholar."
    Sounds like a boringly sensible statement. I'm sure somebody out there will find a way to spin this to be 'bad' - probably on the grounds of being insufficiently condemnatory, but in the context of the previous President and this issue in general this looks pretty positive to me.


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  3. #63
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    He played safe.

    That's all. Whatever he was about to answer would have backfired.

    Like this he sends a message that he is not the previous looney, but he wont shake his own boat too much.
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  4. #64
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    He played safe.

    That's all. Whatever he was about to answer would have backfired.

    Like this he sends a message that he is not the previous looney, but he wont shake his own boat too much.
    I'm not sure how much of a stuff his boat really gives about the President's view of the holocaust. They have bigger fish to fry. There is a part of me that wonders if there are Israeli politicians & their supporters elsewhere who will be more upset by this than most Iranians. Clearly he wants to get the issue off the table & move on to actual important things for the here & now. He has made a positive start, but it remains to be seen quite will come of it.


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  5. #65
    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    Whichever translation is correct, he assiduously avoided the Holocaust denial of Ahmadinejad. If nothing else, it demonstrates an awareness of PR.

  6. #66
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    Call me suspicious or whatever, but was it not naive of this administration falling over themselves this early into the game, both sending the Sec of State and having direct communication with the Presidents in this Iranian saga? I mean, Rohan had to tell them to slow down for goodness sake!

  7. #67
    Contributor 1980s's Avatar
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    'George Stephanopoulos goes one-on-one with Iranian Foreign Minister Dr. Javad Zarif.'


  8. #68
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    "Bold face lie right off the bat."

    Yup. Our sage cynical young Romanian friend should understand that. I rather suspect he does...and is privately fine with it. Good fodder, though, for the gullible. A decade's worth of out-and-out IAEA obstructionism capped by a nonsensical and incoherent performance in the G5+1 debacle is a more than adequate off-the-cuff rebuttal.
    Right. I still favor seeing what the Iranians have to offer, keeping mind, of course, that they are wily rug merchants to the core.
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  9. #69
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Interesting................

    Phony fatwa? Group claims Iranian anti-nuke edict cited by Obama a hoax
    Published September 30, 2013FoxNews.com

    There's a dispute about whether Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei ever gave a fatwa, or religious edict, forbidding the pursuit of nuclear weapons.

    President Obama could be hanging his hopes for productive nuclear negotiations with Iran on a hoax, according to one Middle East-focused think tank.

    On Friday, Obama cited a “fatwa,” or religious edict, from Iran’s all-powerful Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, banning the pursuit of nuclear weapons.


    “There is no such fatwa. It is a lie from the Iranians, a deception, and it is tragic that President Obama has endorsed it,” MEMRI Founder and President Yigal Carmon
    - Yigal Carmon, president of Middle East Media Research Institute

    “I do believe that there is a basis for a resolution [because] Iran’s Supreme Leader has issued a fatwa against the development of nuclear weapons,” Obama told reporters.

    But although talk of such a fatwa has been around for at least eight years, there’s no evidence it was ever issued, according to the Middle East Media Research Institute, which flatly called the fatwa a hoax. MEMRI claims the phony fatwa is promoted by Iranian diplomats and Turkey’s Islamist prime minister, Recep Erdogan.

    “There is no such fatwa. It is a lie from the Iranians, a deception, and it is tragic that President Obama has endorsed it,” MEMRI Founder and President Yigal Carmon told FoxNews.com.

    In July, the Iranian website Tasnimnews, which is linked to Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, published an extensive list of 493 fatwas from Khamenei dating back to 2004. None forbade the pursuit of nuclear weapons. Carmon noted that Khamenei in 2012 was asked directly about the morality of pursuing nuclear weapons, and his answer was telling.

    The question asked to Khamenei was, in light of a Koran teaching that orders Muslims to “prepare against [non-Muslims] whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah,” is it also “forbidden to obtain nuclear weapons, as per your ruling that their use is prohibited?”

    Khamenei’s answer, according to MEMRI, was “your letter has no jurisprudential aspect. When it has a jurisprudent position, then it will be possible to answer it.”

    Carmon said if a fatwa against the pursuit of nuclear weapons existed, Khamenei would have cited it.

    “Wouldn’t you think he would say, ‘I given my fatwa, and it is this?’” Carmon said.

    Carmon said Khamenei could never actually issue such a fatwa unless he intended to see it enforced. But by letting his diplomats make the claim, Iran can appear more reasonable to the West, according to Carmon.

    But University of Michigan history professor Juan Cole, an expert on the Middle East and author of “Engaging the Muslim World,” wrote Monday on his website that the fatwa was reported by the state-run IRNA news agency in 2005, which he said would not have been done without Khamenei’s knowledge and blessing.

    White House officials declined to comment.

    The fatwa’s existence appears to date back to 2005, when it was cited by an Iranian diplomat. In a 2012 Washington Post op-ed by Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi, it was cited again, without a link or other documentation.

    In April 2012, then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, speaking at a NATO conference, cited the supposed fatwa, but with a degree of skepticism.

    “I’ve discussed with a number of experts and religious scholars… If it is indeed a statement of principle, of values, then it is a starting point for being operationalized, which means that it serves as the entryway into a negotiation,” she said.

    Phony fatwa? Group claims Iranian anti-nuke edict cited by Obama a hoax | Fox News
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  10. #70
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    I am dubious of the above argument. They are a biased lot so in addition to the words of the Ayatollah, I would also take the words of the above with grain of salt.

  11. #71
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    I am dubious of the above argument. They are a biased lot so in addition to the words of the Ayatollah, I would also take the words of the above with grain of salt.
    You have to admit though, If they are correct and it doesnt appear on any list of Fatwas he has issued then where is it if there is indeed one was issued against the creating and testing of a nuclear weapon?

    Assaholas credibility isint exactly perfect and we would be fools to take such matters on "faith".

    I would want to see it in writing before even a thought of lifting any sanctions or negociating.

    The past has shown them to pull the "slight of hand" tactics.

    IMO,The only thing that has changed is the mouthpiece, not its master.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 01 Oct 13, at 00:31.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  12. #72
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    Dread,

    As my previous posts here in WAB indicate I'm not a fan of the Iranian regime and far from it. But I must say that I was watching live in TV that supreme nacho of Islamic Republic clearly, boldly and without any possibility of twisting the words in future declared that "Possession, stockpiling and using of any form of weapons of mass destruction is against Islamic doctrine thus against isalm".

    Now many people claim that he is a Shia and believe in principle of "Taqqia" so expediently lying to get away and keep perusing nuclear weapons, I don't know about that but I know he has boxed himself out by 3 times public declaration that having/using nuclear bombs are against islam and I don't know how he is going to face his followers after he detonates a test device.

    One more thing about the article you posted. Tasnimnews did not publish his fatwas, they collected majority of the religious related questions which his followers had asked him and his answers to those and published them at once. Not all his fatwas.

  13. #73
    Contributor 1980s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryajet View Post
    Now many people claim that he is a Shia and believe in principle of "Taqqia" so expediently lying to get away and keep perusing nuclear weapons, I don't know about that but I know he has boxed himself out by 3 times public declaration that having/using nuclear bombs are against islam and I don't know how he is going to face his followers after he detonates a test device.
    That whole 'taqiyya' thing is blown-out of proportion and spun by people who arent Shi'as and know nothing about that branch of Islam. Taqiyya is a concept where it is permissible for Shi'as to deny their faith when faced by persecution, thats it. It isnt a tactic for 'expediently lying' to ones enemies, thats just total BS. It is merely considered to be a legitimate method for an individual to protect ones life and property by concealing ones faith in situations where revealing it would result in harm or murder.

  14. #74
    Defense Professional Dreadnought's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryajet View Post
    Dread,

    As my previous posts here in WAB indicate I'm not a fan of the Iranian regime and far from it. But I must say that I was watching live in TV that supreme nacho of Islamic Republic clearly, boldly and without any possibility of twisting the words in future declared that "Possession, stockpiling and using of any form of weapons of mass destruction is against Islamic doctrine thus against isalm".

    Now many people claim that he is a Shia and believe in principle of "Taqqia" so expediently lying to get away and keep perusing nuclear weapons, I don't know about that but I know he has boxed himself out by 3 times public declaration that having/using nuclear bombs are against islam and I don't know how he is going to face his followers after he detonates a test device.

    One more thing about the article you posted. Tasnimnews did not publish his fatwas, they collected majority of the religious related questions which his followers had asked him and his answers to those and published them at once. Not all his fatwas.

    You will have to forgive me but I do not trust a man that sent children into the minefields during the Iran/Iraq war to clear them under the guise of "keys to heaven" around their neck if one of those mines went off and killed them. He did this to protect the Iranian armor. No matter what I still consider him to be evil and a slight of hand artist.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryajet View Post
    As my previous posts here in WAB indicate I'm not a fan of the Iranian regime and far from it. But I must say that I was watching live in TV that supreme nacho of Islamic Republic clearly, boldly and without any possibility of twisting the words in future declared that "Possession, stockpiling and using of any form of weapons of mass destruction is against Islamic doctrine thus against isalm".
    Nothing about research or testing of nukes. A nice little loop hole

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