Army Looks to Mount 30mm Cannons on Strykers

[desertswo]

You are correct....but you still need food and water for anout the same amount of folks...and water is a bitch to move. You still need TP, pens, paper, batteries, etc. You still need fuel (not as much but still) and you still need lubricants. You may need more barrier and breaching supplies (sand bags, plywood, concertina, pickets, etc.) since you have less armored protection. For ammunition you don't need tank main gun or 25mm for Bradley. But you need more Javelin, almost as much TOW, probably more 155mm as you are still dependent on probably more indirect...same with mortar ammo. And more small arms. You need just as much shaving cream, razor blades, toothpaste, etc. There are actually more vehicles and you probably need more medical supplies. And spare parts...still need spare parts.

So the big reduction is in fuel, tank and Bradley ammo...offset by increases in otehr commodities.

Albany, how long do you figure it is after initial insertion of that brigade before we start pushing all that other stuff in by air? Ooh, and I almost forgot, there are always retrograde requirements . . . some things have to go back from whence they came once they have been used and are no longer required or require refitting or reloading. Contrary to popular belief, we don't just use things and throw them away; in my experience from the strategic point of view, it's a two-way street we have going on there, and the guys in J-4 are very busy making sure that happens.

[Officer of Engineers]

but they are overall one of the most capable when it comes to getting material and personnel into tight places and the guys flying them really know their profession. They aren't just bus drivers.

Fighter jocks have never needed to land and take off while under fire. These guys flew in and out of Sarajevo with RPGs and AAA being thrown around them and at them.

Even at Khe Sanh, they were landing and taking off under artillery fire. A few did not make it. They have a set of balls, knowing that they were targets and there's nothing they can do to avoid it but in they go because our lives depends on them.

[desertswo]

Fighter jocks have never needed to land and take off while under fire. These guys flew in and out of Sarajevo with RPGs and AAA being thrown around them and at them.

Even at Khe Sanh, they were landing and taking off under artillery fire. A few did not make it. They have a set of balls, knowing that they were targets and there's nothing they can do to avoid it but in they go because our lives depends on them.

Truer words were never spoken. Like I mentioned in a previous post, the guys I knew who did that for a living were universally crazy SOBs. I mean they were old school warriors; real

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
  Volley'd and thunder'd;

kind of guys. And oh so much fun to go drinking with! ;)

[Albany Rifles]

DESERTSWO,

I hate to give you the staff officer answer of "Well, it depends..." (Hell, it got me through CGSC!)

The Strykers are going to be used in a midrange scenario most likely as the main mobile force. A fellow traveller, Shek, on this site comamnded a Stryker Rifle company at FT Lewis and Iraq. He told us much of what they were doing in the door kicking ops the Stryker was very good. There are spots on the globe where the Stryker possesses sufficient combat power to meet the requirement....large swaths of Africa and South America...even big chunks of ROK (great defensive Infatry terrain.) And these units can/would be backed by additional indirect fire assets and CAS.

If heavier armor is needed its not coming all the way from CONUS (though a company/team may be airlifted in...see Somalia)...the APREPOs around the globe have multiple heavy brigade equipment sets. Those would move in and marry up with troops from CONUS flown in.

And you are correct about retrograde...I imagine the CODs and UNREPsa re the same way but no logistics transport, be it air, see or land, returns to the rear empty. It carries casualties, unserviceable repair parts (why do you think the cans which have tank and truck engines are accountable items!), vehicle carcasses, etc. So in the case of a Stryker unit deployed at the end of the airbridge key UNSERV are retrograding out. Some items may stay in place until LANDLOCs open.

[desertswo]

And you are correct about retrograde...I imagine the CODs and UNREPsa re the same way but no logistics transport, be it air, see or land, returns to the rear empty. It carries casualties, unserviceable repair parts (why do you think the cans which have tank and truck engines are accountable items!), vehicle carcasses, etc. So in the case of a Stryker unit deployed at the end of the airbridge key UNSERV are retrograding out. Some items may stay in place until LANDLOCs open.

Correct. That video didn't really show it, but especially the carriers send a lot of retrograde the other direction. Especially things like jet engines if the shipboard AIMD cannot repair them, or they have exceeded mandatory service hours and have to go back to GE or whatever for refurbishing. Lots of stuff goes the other way.

[Gun Grape]

DESERTSWO,

I hate to give you the staff officer answer of "Well, it depends..." (Hell, it got me through CGSC!)

The Strykers are going to be used in a midrange scenario most likely as the main mobile force. A fellow traveller, Shek, on this site comamnded a Stryker Rifle company at FT Lewis and Iraq. He told us much of what they were doing in the door kicking ops the Stryker was very good. There are spots on the globe where the Stryker possesses sufficient combat power to meet the requirement....large swaths of Africa and South America...even big chunks of ROK (great defensive Infatry terrain.) And these units can/would be backed by additional indirect fire assets and CAS.

If heavier armor is needed its not coming all the way from CONUS (though a company/team may be airlifted in...see Somalia)...the APREPOs around the globe have multiple heavy brigade equipment sets. Those would move in and marry up with troops from CONUS flown in.

And you are correct about retrograde...I imagine the CODs and UNREPsa re the same way but no logistics transport, be it air, see or land, returns to the rear empty. It carries casualties, unserviceable repair parts (why do you think the cans which have tank and truck engines are accountable items!), vehicle carcasses, etc. So in the case of a Stryker unit deployed at the end of the airbridge key UNSERV are retrograding out. Some items may stay in place until LANDLOCs open.

OMG we have fallen into the -4s trap. Now AR will ramble about the logistics field being a refined intelligent group. Not like his former life as a Infantryman.

Then the big one will come out "Remember Gunny, The Steel don't fly without supply"

We know he has a drawer full of Pogie bait at work

[Gun Grape]

On a more serious note, I know the Marine Corps did a study regarding MPF shipping in regards to trading in Humvees for JLTVs.

There was deck space and ship Center of Gravity issues. Our equipment has gotten bigger and heavier since the MPF came online.

A 30mm on the Stryker, with associated gear isn't going to help the Armys MPF ships any.

I don't see the need from a tactical standpoint either. It would look cool. It would be nice to have.
But what do we give up for the capability?

For every pound we add to this vehicle we have to subtract a pound somewhere else. When you start increasing the number of planes you need to get you there and the MOG rates of your landing site dont change, You increase the chances of not being the one that gets there first with the most men

[desertswo]

On a more serious note, I know the Marine Corps did a study regarding MPF shipping in regards to trading in Humvees for JLTVs.

There was deck space and ship Center of Gravity issues. Our equipment has gotten bigger and heavier since the MPF came online.

A 30mm on the Stryker, with associated gear isn't going to help the Armys MPF ships any.

I don't see the need from a tactical standpoint either. It would look cool. It would be nice to have.
But what do we give up for the capability?

For every pound we add to this vehicle we have to subtract a pound somewhere else. When you start increasing the number of planes you need to get you there and the MOG rates of your landing site dont change, You increase the chances of not being the one that gets there first with the most men

As a stability guru, you have hit a very big nail square on its head. If they do it, there will have to be trade-offs elsewhere because no one is going to buy into purchasing more MPF ships designed to handle that increased weight right now, or anytime in the foreseeable future.

[Blademaster]

Wow. I have learned so much in this thread about expeditionary logistics than anywhere else before. So many things that are a factor but you would never dream of.

It truly proves the time honored axiom, "Amateurs think tactics. Professional think logistics."

[Albany Rifles]

Gunny, behave or I will direct the LOGPAC to visit your battery last.

[S2]

"...I will direct the LOGPAC to visit your battery last."

Shouldn't phase him. Isn't that G-4/S-4 SOP for all Marine attachments?

[Albany Rifles]

"...I will direct the LOGPAC to visit your battery last."

Shouldn't phase him. Isn't that G-4/S-4 SOP for all Marine attachments?

And the TOC!

[S2]

Always the diplomat while spreading misery.

[TopHatter]

Then the big one will come out "Remember Gunny, The Steel don't fly without supply"

As a humble low-level logistician at my company, I'm thinking of engraving that on the overhead storage bins at my desk.

Funny enough, I'm ranked against the engineers at my site when it comes to performance...but I don't share in their performance up-time bonus.

It's something my boss (a retired Navy CMC) is looking to fix by browbeating our corporate higher-ups.

[HKDan]

This is the first confirmation I have seen of what the Army is investigating for the Stryker.


http://defensetech.org/2013/10/21/ar...un-on-stryker/

Early next year, Army maneuver officials at Fort Benning, Ga., will test Stryker vehicles armed with new stabilized 30mm cannons in an effort to increase the firepower of the service’s all-wheeled infantry carriers.

In February, the Army’s Maneuver Center of Excellence will conduct a “proof on concept” test using company’s worth of Styker Vehicles equipped with Kongsberg Protech Systems new Medium Caliber Remote Weapons Station, said Carl Sundin II, who is in charge of senior business development for Army programs at Kongsberg, at the Association of the United States Army’s 2013 Annual meeting and Exposition.

Kongsberg began working with Stryker maker General Dynamics Land Systems on the MCRWS in 2008. The company also makes the M151 RWS that’s currently on the Stryker.

Army officials at Benning’s Maneuver Center announced the service’s plan to “up-gun” Stryker vehicles in September based on lessons learned from combat in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Stryker Brigade Combat Teams first saw combat in Iraq in late 2003. The highly-mobile infantry force is equipped with potent variants such as the 105mm Mobile Gun System and anti-tank guided missile.

But most Stryker vehicles are infantry carriers armed with .50 caliber machine guns or MK19 automatic grenade launchers.
The Medium Caliber Remote Weapon Station looks like a turret mounted on top of a Stryker, but Kongsberg officials maintain that a true turret would consist of a basket that extends down into the vehicle and eat up a lot of space.

“That would detract from the main mission of the Stryker — to transport a nine-man infantry squad,” Sundin said, describing how a true turret would make the Stryker “look a lot like a Bradley inside, holding four to five men tops.”

The MCRWS can also be loaded from the inside of the vehicle, but the current configuration eliminates one of the Stryker’s four top hatches

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2013/10/21/ar...#ixzz2iS54tjAJ
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