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Hundreds Die as Egyptian Forces Attack Islamist Protesters

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  • #61
    AN, where were your posts when the MB was killing people???? Oh thats right you were too busy cheering them on to post.

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    • #62
      I am not surprised in a bit about McCain and Graham.I was actually betting they went there.They can't abstain from supporting every islamist,no matter the country,no matter the form.

      From the description of the events,it didn't looked as getting closer to peace.More like maneuvers to get into better positions.Peace was over months ago.
      Those who know don't speak
      He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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      • #63
        Originally posted by tankie View Post
        MB advocating "a day of anger" today 16th Aug , :pop:

        Yesterday , and fuck alls changed , appeasers , suck shite , as thats what is on the dinner plate from these c###s .Sooner the 7 billion as opposed to the 1 billion realise and eradicate these brain dead turds to their gods , etc , the better the world will get on , religion :slap:

        sharia ,

        F#CK OFF
        Last edited by tankie; 18 Aug 13,, 11:14.

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        • #64
          Mohammed al-Zawahiri has been arrested. he is the brother of Al Queda leader Aymann al-Zawahiri. 40+ Coptic churches burned by MB supporters.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            AN, where were your posts when the MB was killing people???? Oh thats right you were too busy cheering them on to post.
            They can burn down 40+ Coptic churches and AM plays it down claiming them to be "small, fringe, name-less, face-less extremists". The army wastes a few of these pricks and AM goes on a tirade against the Egyptian army.
            Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
            -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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            • #66
              Originally posted by zraver View Post
              Mohammed al-Zawahiri has been arrested. he is the brother of Al Queda leader Aymann al-Zawahiri. 40+ Coptic churches burned by MB supporters.
              Originally posted by Tronic View Post
              They can burn down 40+ Coptic churches and AM plays it down claiming them to be "small, fringe, name-less, face-less extremists". The army wastes a few of these pricks and AM goes on a tirade against the Egyptian army.
              Again, given the MB leadership's public exhortations to their followers to not engage in violence, how can you be certain that the churches are being attacked at the behest of the MB party and/or its leadership, or even by members of the MB, rather than extremist elements acting on their own?

              Given the Egyptian Military's clear desire to provoke violence and smear the MB to justify broader repression of the group, the attacks could also be orchestrated by the Egyptian military - a military leadership that has no qualms about massacring hundreds of innocent civilians in order to preserve their power would certainly have no qualms about perpetrating attacks on Christians and blaming it on the MB.

              http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/76c03b6a-0...#ixzz2cH7ERvS0

              Mourad Ali, a spokesman for Mr Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood group, said his organisation had nothing to do with the attacks. He accused saboteurs working for the security services of carrying them out to incriminate the Islamists and justify repression against them.

              “We strongly condemn any attack – even verbal – on churches and on Coptic property,” he said. “This holds true whether or not Coptic leaders joined in or supported the July 3 coup for whatever reason. This does not justify any attack on them.”
              Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 18 Aug 13,, 01:14.
              Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
              https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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              • #67
                Here is an interesting article covering the MB's response to Al Qaeda threats against Christians in Egypt from 2010. The article talks about how Egyptian Salfists fell more in line with the AL Qaeda positions, and people like Zraver and Tronic would do well to research who exactly the Egyptian Salafists are and who their backers are. The largest salafist political entity in Egypt is the Al Nour party, a competitor to the MB, that supported the military coup against Morsi and is also supported by the Saudis. Note also how the article talks about the "Egyptian government seeking to mollify the radical Islamists within its borders by ignoring Salafi satellite television channels - which sometimes preach against Christianity - and teaching sectarianism in textbooks and classrooms" - in 2010 the 'Egyptian Government' would essentially be the Egyptian Military, led by Mubarak, which continued to ally itself with the Salafists after the coup, and which is receiving billions in aid from the Saudis.

                Prominent Egyptian Muslims, including leaders of the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, rallied yesterday to defend their country's Christian minority after threats from an al Qa'eda-linked group in Iraq.

                The Islamic State of Iraq (ISI), an umbrella group that includes al Qa'eda in Iraq and allied insurgents, declared on Wednesday that all Christians were "legitimate targets".

                The threat follows the group's attack on a Baghdad church on Sunday in which at least 56 people died, including two priests.

                The killings attracted condemnation and revulsion throughout the Muslim world. In Abu Dhabi, up to 1,000 Muslims and Christians are expected to attend a service tonight at St Joseph's Cathedral in memory of the victims.

                Sunday's attack and the new threats have rattled Christian minorities throughout the region. But the call to eliminate Christians from Muslim lands is particularly menacing in Egypt, where growing divisions over the past few months have teetered on the edge of outright violence.

                Leaders of Egypt's Christian community, about 10 per cent of the population, said the calls for bloodshed will have the opposite of their intended effect. Instead of instigating violence against Christians, they have jolted hardliners of both religions into rejecting violent rhetoric, which has escalated since the summer.

                "People are reconsidering their situation and their positions and I suppose that they would rather protect Egypt from al Qa'eda than give al Qa'eda the chance to infiltrate and use them for other goals," said Yusuf Sidhum, the editor of Al Watani, a privately owned weekly that serves the Coptic Christian community. "Everyone stepped up and said it is high time to change this bloody rhetoric, which drags us in the swamp of sectarian strife."

                Although Ayman al Zawahiri, al Qa'eda's second-in-command, is from Egypt, the Islamist militant group has never enjoyed much support in the country.

                Recently, however, Egyptian adherents to the hardline Salafist school of Islamic thought have protested against Christian leaders. They say Egypt's Coptic Orthodox Church is holding two women who have converted to Islam, and object to what they describe as provocative statements by Christian Egyptian clerics.

                For several consecutive Fridays last month, Salafis protested outside churches in Alexandria after Bishop Bishoy, a conservative Coptic priest, commented that Muslims are "guests" of Egyptian Christians, whose presence in the Nile Valley predates the birth of Islam by several hundred years.

                Bishop Bishoy's comments followed equally incendiary ones by Mohammad Salim Al Awa, a conservative religious leader and the former secretary general of the International Union for Muslim Scholars. In mid-September, Mr Al Awa told audiences of Al Jazeera's Without Borders programme that Christians were stockpiling weapons in monasteries. He also alleged that Camillia Shehata, the wife of an Upper Egyptian Coptic priest, was being held against her will by church officials after she converted to Islam.

                It was Ms Shehata's story, along with a similar allegation from 2004, that the ISI invoked when some of its members took over the Baghdad church on Sunday.

                But instead of turning against Christians, calls to protect them echoed from throughout Egypt's Islamic community.

                "This is something to be rejected and strongly denounced, and it serves none but those who want to spark discord and target national unity," the head of Al-Azhar University, Ahmed al-Tayeb, said.

                Pope Schnouda III, the head of Egypt's Coptic Orthodox Church, used his weekly address in Cairo on Wednesday to praise Al-Azhar and the "sympathy" Christians have received from Egyptian newspapers, intellectuals and the ministry of interior, which has posted extra security outside churches.

                Leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood, an outlawed Islamist group that represents the strongest opposition to Egypt's ruling political party, also strongly condemned the ISI and its statements.

                "The Muslim Brotherhood is stressing to all, and primarily Muslims, that the protection of holy places of all monotheistic religions is the mission of the majority of Muslims," the group said.

                Except for some isolated incidents, Egyptian Christians and Muslims have long enjoyed a peaceful relationship. But as Egyptian society has become increasingly conservative over the past decade, the relationship between the faiths has deteriorated.

                The inter-religious dialogue reached its nadir early this year, when Muslim gunmen opened fire outside a church in Naga Hammadi in Upper Egypt, killing nine people.

                Bishop Kirolos, the pastor of the Naga Hammadi cathedral, said yesterday he was confident that the Egyptian government would continue to protect the Coptic minority.

                "We have lived in sectarianism since Sadat's time," Bishop Kirolos said, referring to Anwar Sadat, Egypt's president during the 1970s and whom many blame for empowering Islamists to counteract communists and socialists. "Now we are accustomed to this situation. Nothing more is going to happen."

                Others, however, singled out Egypt's government for blame. Over the past decade, the Egyptian government has sought to mollify the radical Islamists within its borders by ignoring Salafi satellite television channels - which sometimes preach against Christianity - and teaching sectarianism in textbooks and classrooms, said Moneer Megahed, the head of Masryoon Against Religious Discrimination, a non-governmental organisation.

                "Al Qa'eda is not supported by mainstream Muslims. Not now, not before. So there is nothing new in this," Mr Megahed said. "But what we need is to uproot sectarian violence and sectarian tension in Egypt. This can only be done by enforcing the law and changing the education system, how the media tackles the sectarian events and ultimately, by adopting a secular state."

                Read more: Egypt's Brotherhood pledge to defend Christians - The National
                Follow us: @TheNationalUAE on Twitter | thenational.ae on Facebook
                Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 18 Aug 13,, 01:26.
                Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                  Again, given the MB leadership's public exhortations to their followers to not engage in violence, how can you be certain that the churches are being attacked at the behest of the MB party and/or its leadership, or even by members of the MB, rather than extremist elements acting on their own?

                  Given the Egyptian Military's clear desire to provoke violence and smear the MB to justify broader repression of the group, the attacks could also be orchestrated by the Egyptian military - a military leadership that has no qualms about massacring hundreds of innocent civilians in order to preserve their power would certainly have no qualms about perpetrating attacks on Christians and blaming it on the MB.
                  Yes, it must be a conspiracy theory against the Islamists, because there is just no way that a group so closely affiliated with AQ could ever attack non-Muslims.
                  Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                  -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                    Yes, it must be a conspiracy theory against the Islamists, because there is just no way that a group so closely affiliated with AQ could ever attack non-Muslims.
                    I offered an alternative explanation given the Egyptian Military's rather clear policy of rejecting compromise and massacring hundreds of innocent civilians in an attempt to retain power and justify the repression of a political entity they disagree with. Perhaps you should answer the question I posed, what makes you so certain that it is the MB that is carrying out the attacks, given the Egyptian Military and Saudi nexus with the far more hardline Egyptian Salafists?
                    Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 18 Aug 13,, 01:35.
                    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                      I offered an alternative explanation given the Egyptian Military's rather clear policy of rejecting compromise, massacring hundreds of innocent civilians, all in an attempt to retain power and justify the repression of a political entity they disagree with. Perhaps you should answer the question I posed, what makes you so certain that it is the MB that is carrying out the attacks, given the Egyptian Military and Saudi nexus with the far more hardline Egyptian Salafists?
                      Good one AM, but I saw this coming by a mile. Please note that I said Islamists, rather than MB specifically. Islamists have got a long history waging war and attacking innocent non-Muslim civilians; something which the Egyptian army lacks. So I place the ball back in your court, mate. You tell me; what makes you so certain that the ones killed were all 'innocent civilians' and not rioters?
                      Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                      -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                        Good one AM, but I saw this coming by a mile. Please note that I said Islamists, rather than MB specifically.
                        And I said MB specifically, and not all 'Islamists', so what exactly do you disagree with me on?
                        Islamists have got a long history waging war and attacking innocent non-Muslim civilians; something which the Egyptian army lacks
                        It is pretty clear that the Egyptian military has no problems in massacring innocent 'Muslim civilians', or are their lives not worth as much as 'non Muslim civilians'?
                        So I place the ball back in your court, mate. You tell me; what makes you so certain that the ones killed were all 'innocent civilians' and not rioters?
                        Easy - the majority of the protesters were killed during the Egyptian Military's 'clearing out of protest camps'. The camps had been located there for days (a static protest encampment if you need more clarity), with no reports of any significant rioting or looting at the camps, and yet the Egyptian Military crackdown resulted in hundreds of dead - there was no 'rioting' at those camps - this was a calculated and cold blooded massacre by the Egyptian military to provoke violence from the MB, and given the track record of the Egyptian Military and Saudi backed Salafist hardliners, it doesn't take much to guess who is actually carrying out the sectarian/religious violence, and who the primary beneficiary is from that violence.
                        Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                        https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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                        • #72
                          please stop with the pro-jihadi bullshit. You were dead silent when your heroes were attacking Christians and liberals- throwing them to their deaths from roof tops.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                            And I said MB specifically, and not all 'Islamists', so what exactly do you disagree with me on?
                            Well, I'm referring to all the Islamists that are out on the streets in Egypt, and I disagree with your ingenious methods to shrug them out of view to solely lay blame on the Egyptian army.

                            It is pretty clear that the Egyptian military has no problems in massacring innocent 'Muslim civilians', or are their lives not worth as much as 'non Muslim civilians'?
                            Egyptian military shoots people to suppress demonstrations and riots, while Islamists shoot people for being non-Muslim. Big fcking difference.


                            Easy - the majority of the protesters were killed during the Egyptian Military's 'clearing out of protest camps'. The camps had been located there for days (a static protest encampment if you need more clarity), with no reports of any significant rioting or looting at the camps, and yet the Egyptian Military crackdown resulted in hundreds of dead - there was no 'rioting' at those camps - this was a calculated and cold blooded massacre by the Egyptian military to provoke violence from the MB, and given the track record of the Egyptian Military and Saudi backed Salafist hardliners, it doesn't take much to guess who is actually carrying out the sectarian/religious violence, and who the primary beneficiary is from that violence.
                            Oh, so there was rioting. Just not "significant" in your view.

                            Anyhow, one only needs to go on youtube and see toppled and burnt military armoured jeeps during storming of those camps to see why the security forces would've opened fire. You're from the subcontinent, you should know how this works...
                            Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                            -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                            • #74
                              As was posted in another thread on July 31, the Egyptian government ordered the MB to vacate two locations in Cairo and clearly stated that if this was not accomplished voluntarily, all necessary force would be applied to remove them. The MB had two full weeks to disburse peacefully. Instead, they chose to remain entrenched and to fortify their positions. As I remarked in that other thread, push was coming to shove. The resultant confrontation was as bloody as it was predictable. In a region where violence settles many issues, anyone who has lived in the Middle East could easily deduce what was about to transpire. From the point of view of the Muslim Brotherhood, violence was desired. From the point of view of the Egyptian security forces, violence was unavoidable. The immovable object collided with the irresistible force and the dead piled up. In addition, Copt Christians are now increasingly the targets of Islamist intolerance and retribution.

                              What has occurred in Egypt during the past few months cannot be undone. It is what it is. Moving forward then and everything considered, I have no sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood.
                              sigpic

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                                Mohammed al-Zawahiri has been arrested. he is the brother of Al Queda leader Aymann al-Zawahiri. 40+ Coptic churches burned by MB supporters.
                                Are they the same ones AM said this about


                                Prominent Egyptian Muslims, including leaders of the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, rallied yesterday to defend their country's Christian minority after threats from an al Qa'eda-linked group in Iraq.


                                Didnt rallie very hard it seems .Only 40 isolated incidents :whome:
                                Last edited by tankie; 18 Aug 13,, 11:25.

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