Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Indian Navy sub sinks at berth after explosion/ 18 aboard.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    Maybe you are not as well informed. My nation is free to invest its resources in arming itself to protect itself for any foreign or domestic threat, and China is a military threat to India.
    Arming yourself to what extend? That's the question. I've argued that India's ruling class tend to overstate the threat and overspend on imported weapons.

    With that kind of money, I would've built some more roads.

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    Your communists wanted to go to war in 1986 with India (Somdorong Chu), only the PLA disuaded them as they could not promise a victory. You may google it up or just ask OOE further information.
    I think my commies went to war with you guys in 1962, so what's your point?

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by cdude View Post
      Arming yourself to what extend? That's the question. I've argued that India's ruling class tend to overstate the threat and overspend on imported weapons.
      While at the same time trying to design and build everything domestically, with the results seen in the last few years...

      Meanwhile, the poor troops at the sharp end get the result... I get nightmares thinking of those poor sailors in the sub...

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by cdude View Post

        I think my commies went to war with you guys in 1962, so what's your point?
        Point is you are an IDIOT:bang:

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
          While at the same time trying to design and build everything domestically, with the results seen in the last few years...
          At what expense? People often laugh at North Korea's ruling class for getting their priorities wrong. And deservedly so.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by cdude View Post
            At what expense? People often laugh at North Korea's ruling class for getting their priorities wrong. And deservedly so.
            Indeed. The domestic programs are all massively overbudget and flawed...

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by cdude View Post
              Arming yourself to what extend? That's the question. I've argued that India's ruling class tend to overstate the threat and overspend on imported weapons.
              Just 5 to 10 years back China was top on the list for imported weapons. What was China's ruling class fearing and what was their extent to arm themselves.

              Since most of your indigenous weapon programs have been not yielding like J-20 prototypes standing sad without indigenous engine and your air force signing deals with Russians for SU-35. Purchasing S-400 SAM from Russia against your claims of having state of the art SAMs and missile programme. You people are still going to be top 5 importers of arms.

              With that kind of money, I would've built some more roads.
              Roads to where and why. Why a poster who is not an Indian has to worry about Indian roads in a topic unrelated to Indian infrastructure; which is quite massive and ongoing program? Trolling ?
              Last edited by ambidex; 21 Aug 13,, 16:09.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                I get nightmares thinking of those poor sailors in the sub...
                They died in the line of duty. No way on earth they are poor. They were operating one of the best (contemporary) Subs provided to them.

                There are many subs who met accidents worst than this. One on the Chinese sub was patrolling Yellow Sea with all its crew dead, just 10 year back. Chinese sub crew of 70 are killed by 'malfunction' - Telegraph

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                  They died in the line of duty. No way on earth they are poor. They were operating one of the best (contemporary) Subs provided to them.
                  They were sufocated/burned to death/blown up/crushed while tied to a pier, doing maintenance. By any standards, in any age, regardless of duty, I still call them "poor sailors"

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                    They were sufocated/burned to death/blown up/crushed while tied to a pier, doing maintenance. By any standards, in any age, regardless of duty, I still call them "poor sailors"
                    No need for your details. People here are educated enough to understand occupational hazards.

                    BTW you started with a point that because of misplaced priorities Indian sailors had to suffer. Neither the sub was indigenous nor it was outdated, a handsome amount of money was spent to upgrade it. It was one of the best subs with most experience crew. Not to mention the cause of accident is not still established and the kind of open society we are, unlike few, the details of this accident will be made public for sure.

                    So please have your facts correct before doing further lecture.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                      Just 5 to 10 years back China was top on the list for imported weapons. What was China's ruling class fearing and what was their extent to arm themselves.
                      Since most of your indigenous weapon programs have been not yielding like J-20 prototypes standing sad without indigenous engine and your air force signing deals with Russians for SU-35. Purchasing S-400 SAM from Russia against your claims of having state of the art SAMs and missile programme. You people are still going to be top 5 importers of arms.
                      In 98, NATO bombed Chinese embassy in Serbia, 3 Chinese citizens killed. In 2001, US spy plane clashed with a J-8 fighter near Hainan, one Chinese pilot was killed. We are talking about real military actions between China and the US. Not some patrol troops trolling back and forth then get drunk together.

                      Now to the numbers, remember China's foreign-exchange reserves is roughly 10 times that of India. List of countries by foreign-exchange reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      Check out this page: Arms industry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      Arms import from 2000 to 2010:
                      India 911 1242 1872 2802 2227 1036 1257 2179 1810 2116 3337
                      China 2015 3366 2819 2207 3080 3511 3831 1474 1481 595 559

                      Arms export from 2001 to 2011
                      China 499 509 665 292 303 597 430 586 1000 1423 1354 1783

                      At any given year, the net arms import for China is at MOST 2X india with 10X foreign-exchange reserves. I conclude that China manages their budgets slightly less insane.










                      Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                      Roads to where and why. Why a poster who is not an Indian has to worry about Indian roads in a topic unrelated to Indian infrastructure; which is quite massive and ongoing program? Trolling ?
                      Always attack the messenger first, I see.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by ambidex View Post
                        No need for your details. People here are educated enough to understand occupational hazards.

                        BTW you started with a point that because of misplaced priorities Indian sailors had to suffer. Neither the sub was indigenous nor it was outdated, a handsome amount of money was spent to upgrade it. It was one of the best subs with most experience crew. Not to mention the cause of accident is not still established and the kind of open society we are, unlike few, the details of this accident will be made public for sure.
                        I was not referering to "misplaced priorities". I was refering to trying to do everything at the same time (getting massive buys of foreign equipment AND domestic at the same time) causing well-known problems (technical and bugetary). And I do know the IN had spen millions upgrading that sub; whoever while the crew may have been that good (I have no idea), the fact is that indian shipwards are overworked and clogged with orders. A situation that doesn't help safety.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by cdude View Post
                          In 98, NATO bombed Chinese embassy in Serbia, 3 Chinese citizens killed.

                          So you will buy imported arms because of that to top the list at that time.


                          In 2001, US spy plane clashed with a J-8 fighter near Hainan, one Chinese pilot was killed. We are talking about real military actions between China and the US.
                          I heard that Chinese pilot bumped into that plane, stupid. USA spying means military confrontation? Your paranoia is epic and laughable. Still you nation poses Zero threat to USA. All your military capabilities are there to bully small neighbours.

                          Not some patrol troops trolling back and forth then get drunk together.
                          So what China has been doing against USA which is more confronting than what PLA is doing at LAC. How about nuclear weapon proliferation to Pakistan by China against India. Fighting India till last Pakistani ?

                          Now to the numbers, remember China's foreign-exchange reserves is roughly 10 times that of India. List of countries by foreign-exchange reserves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                          Check out this page: Arms industry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                          At any given year, the net arms import for China is at MOST 2X india with 10X foreign-exchange reserves. I conclude that China manages their budgets slightly less insane.
                          I stand correct that China was top arms importer. How China manages/ed it better with its cooked book economy is anyone guess.

                          Indian policy makers very well know about the size of their pocket and what their short term and long term requirements are. The size of Indian economy can sustain the expenditure we intend to do. Your generic propaganda statistics can not give you authority to comment on Indian procurement process and budget allocation details. Neither you are qualified nor you will be able to debate on it. All three wings of our forces return surplus budget every year. If you want to discuss it in detail then trust me you will end up knowing that we still do not equip our forces well to meet the challenges posed by Impulsive Islamic republic and Communist hegemon.

                          Always attack the messenger first, I see.
                          You didn't answer me. What is your interest about Indian roads vis a vis topic in hand.
                          Last edited by ambidex; 21 Aug 13,, 17:13.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jlvfr View Post
                            I was not referering to "misplaced priorities". I was refering to trying to do everything at the same time (getting massive buys of foreign equipment AND domestic at the same time) causing well-known problems (technical and bugetary). And I do know the IN had spen millions upgrading that sub; whoever while the crew may have been that good (I have no idea), the fact is that indian shipwards are overworked and clogged with orders. A situation that doesn't help safety.
                            Leave it to Indians, we have been operating ACC, nuclear subs three different types of fighter jets, three different types of tanks etc. etc. at one given time since 40-50 odd years.

                            I can fairly say it is beyond this thread to go into details how republic of India manages its armed forces and procurement of weapons. So please do not trade into the territory which can never be an answers of few lines. Like you said you have no Idea, I will assume you are posting here just for sake of posting.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Ambidex,

                              Grab a snickers, mate ;)

                              Been a while to see cdude's posts to make sense. India is overspending and is in no condition to win arms race with PRC considering the economies of both countries.

                              However, I agree it is tasteless a thread dedicated to a tragedy to derail into a discussion over military spending of countries.
                              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                                Ambidex,

                                Grab a snickers, mate ;)

                                Been a while to see cdude's posts to make sense. India is overspending and is in no condition to win arms race with PRC considering the economies of both countries.

                                However, I agree it is tasteless a thread dedicated to a tragedy to derail into a discussion over military spending of countries.
                                I think two or three years ago our Naval chief categorically made it clear that India can not win arms race with China. The point is if naval Chief is saying it means people in India are aware of it, they understand the futility of it. I believe India has its own calculations done and we are going to be within our limits of spending. A quick glance at what we have purchased or going to purchase reflects a snail pace phenomenon which I doubt can be counter productive to our economy in any abrupt sense.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X