Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim
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India Says Five Soldiers Killed in Attack on Pakistan Border
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by antimony View PostIs this commentary from the newspaper of record again, or are you trying your hand at polemic now?Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
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Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View PostOh, that was merely a response to one of the resident purveyors of IA braggadocio ... :whome:
I also noted that you choose not to answer this question:
So you are saying (or quoting) that all avenues (including flag meetings etc.) had failed and the PA had no option but to strike with force?"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus
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Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View PostOh, that was merely a response to one of the resident purveyors of IA braggadocio ... :whome:
IA braggadocio? Well, IA won all wars with Pakistan except the ones taught in Pakistan's Islamic Madrassas. Get a grip.Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!
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Originally posted by Oracle View PostIA braggadocio? .
And as far as your comment about 'disrespect, insulting etc' is concerned, offer that advice to the gentleman you are defending who chose to do exactly that (disrespect and insult) the Pakistani Army with the aforementioned comment of his, and as you and other Indians have done on multiple other occasions.
I criticized an individual on the basis of his 'disrespectful boasts' - you lot insult and denigrate the institution of the Pakistan Army and its soldiers consistently, day in and day out, and then have the gall to try and protest when one of you is called out for it.Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 20 Sep 13,, 19:27.Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
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Originally posted by Oracle View PostHe was an Indian Army Captain, not a purveyor. This disrespect and insult thrown at ex-servicemen shows your intentions. As about vanity, AM, why don't this board has or more interestingly, why don't you invite some PA Professionals to counter the arguments of LT, where you so famously start to troll when you have nothing to argue about?
IA braggadocio? Well, IA won all wars with Pakistan except the ones taught in Pakistan's Islamic Madrassas. Get a grip.
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Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View PostYou just had to read the comments accompanying the posts you referenced - its not my fault you choose to engage in selective reading.
In the case of violating the terms of the ceasefire over a 'granny crossing the LoC' and constructing bunkers, yes, the Indian Army is the aggressor.
The alarm bells ringing in IA HQs after the alleged discovery of a granny crossing over to be with her fugitive drug smuggling sons, is due to a phenomena, heavily lacking in Pakistan, called 'enforcing your borders'!
If a granny can elude the IA and cross over into Pakistan, that means there is a gap in security which can be exploited by unwanted terrorist scum from Pakistan to enter India and kill Indians. So to enforce our borders to protect our people from the terrorist scum of your country is not called aggression. But I can understand why you would be peeved...
In the case of supporting terrorists/insurgents in Junagadh and East Pakistan, yes, the Indian Army/India are the aggressors.
As for East Pakistan.. Indian support to Mukti Bahini guerillas and Pakistani support to HM, LeT, JeM, HuJI, etc, is nothing alike. To be equated with India, openly profess that your army trains, arms and shelters those militant groups and stop playing a double game with the world. That is what India did in 1971; took full responsibility of fathering, training, arming and sheltering the Mukti Bahini. Pakistan is nothing alike.
Your comment here only further substantiates my point about many of the Indians on this forum clinging to 'one sided views lacking objectivity'.
That is an excellent question for the Afghan government - why their soldiers violated the UN Charter/international law in illegally crossing the Afghan-Pakistan border and killing 'innocent Pakistanis'.
You are contrasting my criticism of pure 'opinion' by certain Pakistani commentators against an individual quoting current Indian government and military sources, so no, this BS reasoning above is all yours, not mine, though I am not surprised you failed to grasp the nuances involved.
I'll take that as an admission on your part that the journalist was correct when he quoted Indian military and government sources
stating that the IA was responsible for this particular series of confrontations across the LoC with their construction of bunkers in violation of the ceasefire agreement.
And, please, feel free to quote my comments on those specific statements by Zardari and Musharraf to establish whatever it is you are trying to establish.Last edited by Tronic; 20 Sep 13,, 22:59.Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
-Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry
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Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View PostYes, my description of comments such as this, "The recent incidents have lead to InA to destroy a number of Pak army forward posts, which was never done before. It has shaken them, hence they have calmed down for now", is apt.
And as far as your comment about 'disrespect, insulting etc' is concerned, offer that advice to the gentleman you are defending who chose to do exactly that (disrespect and insult) the Pakistani Army with the aforementioned comment of his, and as you and other Indians have done on multiple other occasions.
I criticized an individual on the basis of his 'disrespectful boasts' - you lot insult and denigrate the institution of the Pakistan Army and its soldiers consistently, day in and day out, and then have the gall to try and protest when one of you is called out for it.
First, do you reside by the LoC (?), that you are privy to things unknown to civilians like us? If not, than the Captain's words are to be taken as true until you get us appropriate sources.
Secondly, hilarious as it seems to you that I am defending an IA Captain. Do you really think the good Captain cannot defend himself in a virtual world, where-as at the LoC he might have sniped tens of Pakistani terrorists?
Thirdly, PA & ISI were, are, and in the recent future too, would be supporters of a state policy of terrorism. And much proof of it lies in the open domain. I stated it once in a post, and you didn't engage me, want me to post the same?
What you do not understand is the policy paralysis of the PA to infiltrate Islamic Pakistani terrorists into India, so utterly bad, that they have to resort to Talibanized behaviour. But, afterall, aren't they sides of the same coin?
OTOH, give me one single reason why the entire civilized world should trust your PA & ISI. And, I'll flood your bed with a thousands why not's.Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!
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Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View PostOf course, because the Pakistani Army has no actual combat experience and deploys poorly trained conscripts from local farms who 'are shaken up' by what are essentially routine LoC exchanges of fire while the 'descended from the heavens Indian Army soldiers' catch the bullets and shells fired their way with their teeth and spit them back at the Pakistani forward posts, thereby 'shaking them' even further ...
Cheers!...on the rocks!!
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Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View PostI criticized an individual on the basis of his 'disrespectful boasts' - you lot insult and denigrate the institution of the Pakistan Army and its soldiers consistently, day in and day out, and then have the gall to try and protest when one of you is called out for it.
Cheers!...on the rocks!!
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Originally posted by Blademaster View PostThe best way to help him get a grip is to post a picture of Gen. Naizi signing the surrender documents in Dacca in 1971. :pop::whome:
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Originally posted by Blademaster View PostThe best way to help him get a grip is to post a picture of Gen. Naizi signing the surrender documents in Dacca in 1971. :pop::whome:No such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.
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Originally posted by Tronic View PostIf I didn't read your "debates", I wouldn't be pointing out to you your blatant hypocrisy.
Constructing observation posts to plug gaps in our borders is Indian army's aggression.
If a granny can elude the IA and cross over into Pakistan, that means there is a gap in security which can be exploited by unwanted terrorist scum from Pakistan to enter India and kill Indians.
Kingdom of Junagadh went to war against the Kingdoms of Babriawad and Mangrol.. Indian army came to the assistance of the latter kingdoms and steamrolled over Junagadh. Who were the insurgents? It was an invasion by the Indian army.
Just the same manner the Pakistani army invaded the independent Khanate of Kalat, and the Princely State of Jammu and Kashmir. I still contend that both India and Pakistan acted as imperialist powers gobbling up minor kingdoms which expressed a desire to remain independent. It is only you who sees one country's acts as imperialist, while another's as righteous. That is why I call you out for your hypocritical BS.
As for East Pakistan.. Indian support to Mukti Bahini guerillas and Pakistani support to HM, LeT, JeM, HuJI, etc, is nothing alike. To be equated with India, openly profess that your army trains, arms and shelters those militant groups and stop playing a double game with the world. That is what India did in 1971; took full responsibility of fathering, training, arming and sheltering the Mukti Bahini. Pakistan is nothing alike.
I believe that in between your rants and digressions you agreed with the actual point I made in my comment ...
What can I say, it's very hard to replicate your excellent examples of objectivity.
Funny, because the Indian, US, ISAF or NATO troops could probably answer for the Afghans of why any army would feel the need to hit targets within Pakistan.
Which "Indian government and military sources" did the author quote? As I recall, you have turned down such anonymous quotes in the past when they didn't align with your agenda. But since using those quotes pushes your agenda now, it's apparently ok to use them..
Possibly true. Still doesn't make IA an aggressor.
Oh, like I give a .. about what you think.Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
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Originally posted by lemontree View PostI never said your chaps don't have combat experience, all I said was that they have been clobbered well enough to keep shut.
Quite frankly, when I contrast your chest-thumping posts with the calm responses I get from the PA officers, I have to wonder which side is really the frazzled one ...Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
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Originally posted by IND76 View PostHo no no thats all Indian conspiracy !. Its imposible for indians to face pak army, dont you know famous quote about "1 pakistani is equal to 10 Indians:red:Originally posted by Doktor View PostWhy bother? Ask for the last victory parade.Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
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