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  • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    Of course, because the Pakistani Army has no actual combat experience and deploys poorly trained conscripts from local farms who 'are shaken up' by what are essentially routine LoC exchanges of fire while the 'descended from the heavens Indian Army soldiers' catch the bullets and shells fired their way with their teeth and spit them back at the Pakistani forward posts, thereby 'shaking them' even further ...
    Is this commentary from the newspaper of record again, or are you trying your hand at polemic now?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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    • Originally posted by antimony View Post
      Is this commentary from the newspaper of record again, or are you trying your hand at polemic now?
      Oh, that was merely a response to one of the resident purveyors of IA braggadocio ... :whome:
      Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
      https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
        Oh, that was merely a response to one of the resident purveyors of IA braggadocio ... :whome:
        I see...

        I also noted that you choose not to answer this question:

        So you are saying (or quoting) that all avenues (including flag meetings etc.) had failed and the PA had no option but to strike with force?
        The Hindu report mentions something about shouting with loudspeakers, no mention of formal flag meetings etc. It is also interesting that the PA loses its shit on bunkers built on the Indian side, but will not respond militarily to drone attacks that kills its civilians.
        "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
          Oh, that was merely a response to one of the resident purveyors of IA braggadocio ... :whome:
          He was an Indian Army Captain, not a purveyor. This disrespect and insult thrown at ex-servicemen shows your intentions. As about vanity, AM, why don't this board has or more interestingly, why don't you invite some PA Professionals to counter the arguments of LT, where you so famously start to troll when you have nothing to argue about?

          IA braggadocio? Well, IA won all wars with Pakistan except the ones taught in Pakistan's Islamic Madrassas. Get a grip.
          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
            IA braggadocio? .
            Yes, my description of comments such as this, "The recent incidents have lead to InA to destroy a number of Pak army forward posts, which was never done before. It has shaken them, hence they have calmed down for now", is apt.

            And as far as your comment about 'disrespect, insulting etc' is concerned, offer that advice to the gentleman you are defending who chose to do exactly that (disrespect and insult) the Pakistani Army with the aforementioned comment of his, and as you and other Indians have done on multiple other occasions.

            I criticized an individual on the basis of his 'disrespectful boasts' - you lot insult and denigrate the institution of the Pakistan Army and its soldiers consistently, day in and day out, and then have the gall to try and protest when one of you is called out for it.
            Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 20 Sep 13,, 19:27.
            Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
            https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Oracle View Post
              He was an Indian Army Captain, not a purveyor. This disrespect and insult thrown at ex-servicemen shows your intentions. As about vanity, AM, why don't this board has or more interestingly, why don't you invite some PA Professionals to counter the arguments of LT, where you so famously start to troll when you have nothing to argue about?

              IA braggadocio? Well, IA won all wars with Pakistan except the ones taught in Pakistan's Islamic Madrassas. Get a grip.
              The best way to help him get a grip is to post a picture of Gen. Naizi signing the surrender documents in Dacca in 1971. :pop::whome:

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                You just had to read the comments accompanying the posts you referenced - its not my fault you choose to engage in selective reading.
                If I didn't read your "debates", I wouldn't be pointing out to you your blatant hypocrisy.


                In the case of violating the terms of the ceasefire over a 'granny crossing the LoC' and constructing bunkers, yes, the Indian Army is the aggressor.
                Constructing observation posts to plug gaps in our borders is Indian army's aggression. I guess you have a valid reason for concern, as it presents a new danger for infiltrating Jihadis..

                The alarm bells ringing in IA HQs after the alleged discovery of a granny crossing over to be with her fugitive drug smuggling sons, is due to a phenomena, heavily lacking in Pakistan, called 'enforcing your borders'!

                If a granny can elude the IA and cross over into Pakistan, that means there is a gap in security which can be exploited by unwanted terrorist scum from Pakistan to enter India and kill Indians. So to enforce our borders to protect our people from the terrorist scum of your country is not called aggression. But I can understand why you would be peeved...


                In the case of supporting terrorists/insurgents in Junagadh and East Pakistan, yes, the Indian Army/India are the aggressors.
                Kingdom of Junagadh went to war against the Kingdoms of Babriawad and Mangrol.. Indian army came to the assistance of the latter kingdoms and steamrolled over Junagadh. Who were the insurgents? It was an invasion by the Indian army. Just the same manner the Pakistani army invaded the independent Khanate of Kalat, and the Princely State of Jammu and Kashmir. I still contend that both India and Pakistan acted as imperialist powers gobbling up minor kingdoms which expressed a desire to remain independent. It is only you who sees one country's acts as imperialist, while another's as righteous. That is why I call you out for your hypocritical BS.

                As for East Pakistan.. Indian support to Mukti Bahini guerillas and Pakistani support to HM, LeT, JeM, HuJI, etc, is nothing alike. To be equated with India, openly profess that your army trains, arms and shelters those militant groups and stop playing a double game with the world. That is what India did in 1971; took full responsibility of fathering, training, arming and sheltering the Mukti Bahini. Pakistan is nothing alike.


                Your comment here only further substantiates my point about many of the Indians on this forum clinging to 'one sided views lacking objectivity'.
                What can I say, it's very hard to replicate your excellent examples of objectivity.

                That is an excellent question for the Afghan government - why their soldiers violated the UN Charter/international law in illegally crossing the Afghan-Pakistan border and killing 'innocent Pakistanis'.
                Funny, because the Indian, US, ISAF or NATO troops could probably answer for the Afghans of why any army would feel the need to hit targets within Pakistan.

                You are contrasting my criticism of pure 'opinion' by certain Pakistani commentators against an individual quoting current Indian government and military sources, so no, this BS reasoning above is all yours, not mine, though I am not surprised you failed to grasp the nuances involved.
                Which "Indian government and military sources" did the author quote? As I recall, you have turned down such anonymous quotes in the past when they didn't align with your agenda. But since using those quotes pushes your agenda now, it's apparently ok to use them..

                I'll take that as an admission on your part that the journalist was correct when he quoted Indian military and government sources
                How can I know or say for sure that the journo is correct? But I agree that his story sounds very plausible.. I've never said I had anything against that journo or that article. I just wanted to drive home my point of your blatant and nauseating hypocrisy.

                stating that the IA was responsible for this particular series of confrontations across the LoC with their construction of bunkers in violation of the ceasefire agreement.
                Possibly true. Still doesn't make IA an aggressor.

                And, please, feel free to quote my comments on those specific statements by Zardari and Musharraf to establish whatever it is you are trying to establish.
                Oh, like I give a .. about what you think.
                Last edited by Tronic; 20 Sep 13,, 22:59.
                Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                  Yes, my description of comments such as this, "The recent incidents have lead to InA to destroy a number of Pak army forward posts, which was never done before. It has shaken them, hence they have calmed down for now", is apt.

                  And as far as your comment about 'disrespect, insulting etc' is concerned, offer that advice to the gentleman you are defending who chose to do exactly that (disrespect and insult) the Pakistani Army with the aforementioned comment of his, and as you and other Indians have done on multiple other occasions.

                  I criticized an individual on the basis of his 'disrespectful boasts' - you lot insult and denigrate the institution of the Pakistan Army and its soldiers consistently, day in and day out, and then have the gall to try and protest when one of you is called out for it.
                  I see you've quoted parts of everything and anything that suits your purpose. Fine, however, I have quoted your post in its entirety.

                  First, do you reside by the LoC (?), that you are privy to things unknown to civilians like us? If not, than the Captain's words are to be taken as true until you get us appropriate sources.

                  Secondly, hilarious as it seems to you that I am defending an IA Captain. Do you really think the good Captain cannot defend himself in a virtual world, where-as at the LoC he might have sniped tens of Pakistani terrorists?

                  Thirdly, PA & ISI were, are, and in the recent future too, would be supporters of a state policy of terrorism. And much proof of it lies in the open domain. I stated it once in a post, and you didn't engage me, want me to post the same?

                  What you do not understand is the policy paralysis of the PA to infiltrate Islamic Pakistani terrorists into India, so utterly bad, that they have to resort to Talibanized behaviour. But, afterall, aren't they sides of the same coin?

                  OTOH, give me one single reason why the entire civilized world should trust your PA & ISI. And, I'll flood your bed with a thousands why not's.
                  Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                    Of course, because the Pakistani Army has no actual combat experience and deploys poorly trained conscripts from local farms who 'are shaken up' by what are essentially routine LoC exchanges of fire while the 'descended from the heavens Indian Army soldiers' catch the bullets and shells fired their way with their teeth and spit them back at the Pakistani forward posts, thereby 'shaking them' even further ...
                    I never said your chaps don't have combat experience, all I said was that they have been clobbered well enough to keep shut. But then, for you, being a spokesperson of a terrorist nation, this must be a difficult reality to digest.

                    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                      I criticized an individual on the basis of his 'disrespectful boasts' - you lot insult and denigrate the institution of the Pakistan Army and its soldiers consistently, day in and day out, and then have the gall to try and protest when one of you is called out for it.
                      Don't worry, I only get insulted by people who matter.

                      Cheers!...on the rocks!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                        The best way to help him get a grip is to post a picture of Gen. Naizi signing the surrender documents in Dacca in 1971. :pop::whome:
                        Ho no no thats all Indian conspiracy !. Its imposible for indians to face pak army, dont you know famous quote about "1 pakistani is equal to 10 Indians:red:

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                          The best way to help him get a grip is to post a picture of Gen. Naizi signing the surrender documents in Dacca in 1971. :pop::whome:
                          Why bother? Ask for the last victory parade.
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tronic View Post
                            If I didn't read your "debates", I wouldn't be pointing out to you your blatant hypocrisy.
                            You haven't read them, because if you had you would not be harping on 'hypocrisy' still.
                            Constructing observation posts to plug gaps in our borders is Indian army's aggression.
                            Yes, if the construction was in violation of the ceasefire agreement.

                            If a granny can elude the IA and cross over into Pakistan, that means there is a gap in security which can be exploited by unwanted terrorist scum from Pakistan to enter India and kill Indians.
                            That should have been taken into account before the details of the ceasfire agreement were taken into account, and if the ceasefire agreement was found to be lacking, dialog should have been initiated between the two countries to revise the agreement. In the absence of any revision to the ceasefire agreement between India and Pakistan, the construction of structures prohibited in the agreement constitutes a violation of the agreement and therefore constitutes a provocation.
                            Kingdom of Junagadh went to war against the Kingdoms of Babriawad and Mangrol.. Indian army came to the assistance of the latter kingdoms and steamrolled over Junagadh. Who were the insurgents? It was an invasion by the Indian army.
                            The Indian Army invaded Pakistani territory without any provocation given that the ruler of Junagadh had acceded to Pakistan under the rules governing partition, an accession that was communicated to India and one that India was completely aware of given the details of the diplomatic cables exchanged between India and Pakistan in the run-up to the unprovoked Indian invasion of Pakistani territory of Junagadh.
                            Just the same manner the Pakistani army invaded the independent Khanate of Kalat, and the Princely State of Jammu and Kashmir. I still contend that both India and Pakistan acted as imperialist powers gobbling up minor kingdoms which expressed a desire to remain independent. It is only you who sees one country's acts as imperialist, while another's as righteous. That is why I call you out for your hypocritical BS.

                            As for East Pakistan.. Indian support to Mukti Bahini guerillas and Pakistani support to HM, LeT, JeM, HuJI, etc, is nothing alike. To be equated with India, openly profess that your army trains, arms and shelters those militant groups and stop playing a double game with the world. That is what India did in 1971; took full responsibility of fathering, training, arming and sheltering the Mukti Bahini. Pakistan is nothing alike.
                            Again, try actually reading my posts instead of just going off on a rant - here is my comment again: "In the case of supporting terrorists/insurgents in Junagadh and East Pakistan, yes, the Indian Army/India are the aggressors."

                            I believe that in between your rants and digressions you agreed with the actual point I made in my comment ...
                            What can I say, it's very hard to replicate your excellent examples of objectivity.
                            Flying into a rage against my posts without really trying to understand the point being made will make comprehension difficult.
                            Funny, because the Indian, US, ISAF or NATO troops could probably answer for the Afghans of why any army would feel the need to hit targets within Pakistan.
                            So where is the answer? Why were women and children killed? What was the alleged provocation from the 5 individuals massacred by the Afghans?
                            Which "Indian government and military sources" did the author quote? As I recall, you have turned down such anonymous quotes in the past when they didn't align with your agenda. But since using those quotes pushes your agenda now, it's apparently ok to use them..
                            The credibility of sources (anonymous or otherwise) depends on the credibility and identity of the journalist. If this were a Pakistani journalist quoting 'anonymous Indian sources' or even 'anonymous Pakistani sources' I wouldn't bother posting anything. However, this is very reputable Indian journalist, published in a very reputable Indian newspaper quoting Indian sources about Indian government/military actions, which is what makes the account credible.
                            Possibly true. Still doesn't make IA an aggressor.
                            The side that violates the ceasefire agreement is by default the aggressor.
                            Oh, like I give a .. about what you think.
                            You brought up those two statements, not me, and I assume you brought up those two statements for a reason - I am merely following up on it and calling your bluff.
                            Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                            https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                              I never said your chaps don't have combat experience, all I said was that they have been clobbered well enough to keep shut.
                              That's the thing, all you have offered is nothing more than chest thumping. No one on the Pakistani side (I am referring to the serving Army officers I am in contact with) stoop to the kind of inane chest-thumping and language you do. Their response to your posts has been dismissive, essentially stating that the recent exchanges along the LoC have been largely 'nothing out of the ordinary, aside from the media hype'. According to them, the exchanges have been largely restricted to small arms fire and mortars with minimal casualties on either side and no one has a clue about your 'destroyed Pakistani forward posts'.

                              Quite frankly, when I contrast your chest-thumping posts with the calm responses I get from the PA officers, I have to wonder which side is really the frazzled one ...
                              Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                              https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by IND76 View Post
                                Ho no no thats all Indian conspiracy !. Its imposible for indians to face pak army, dont you know famous quote about "1 pakistani is equal to 10 Indians:red:
                                Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                                Why bother? Ask for the last victory parade.
                                Sure, anything but actually address the thread topic right ...
                                Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                                https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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