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MNCs find it tough to do business in India due to corruption and uncertain laws

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
    It's rampant here but it's not direct so the govt./authorities claim it doesn't exist. an example is permissions for building. Your plans will pass through a series of offices, each of which will need to approve it and each of which charges a fee.
    Same here. Every office has a fee associated with its service. But an illegal amount too, without which it won't move onto the next office.

    Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
    ALWAYS, irrespective of the architect/engineers knowledge of bylaws, at some point in the chain you will be required to modify the plans. You then start again from the beginning, again being charged for each step (they have to re-examine them as the plans have changed) and again some part of the process will require a change. Back to the start again.
    Ah, here is where one gets away in India. Even if a design is faulty, one can get it passed by paying a bribe. Say for example, the town I belong to, there should be a gap of 5 feet from the boundary wall (when a house is constructed) on all 4 directions of the house. This is a municipal law and is primarily for 2 reasons -
    1. To prevent rainwater flooding neighbor's compound from ones' terrace and rooftop, during monsoon
    2. If there is fire, adjacent buildings are not directly affected.

    However, mostly in metros and in big cities these laws are flouted regularly. Anyone who visits India or have visited India would be privy to that.

    Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
    A single change to plans that moved the edge of a roof line 11 millimetres meant I had to pay the Wellington City Council over $25,000 in fees. That's just one example out of many. It's a cooperative bureaucracy from the point of view they cooperate to fleece you, all perfectly legally by local bylaw.
    Wow, 25K dollars. That's huge legal fleecing.

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    I have a run a business too in India and did not have to pay any bribes. I paid all my taxes and dues to the government and kept well maintained records.
    Sir, there is a saying in my circle. Don't be afraid of the grim reaper, but be very afraid of the taxman. I too do the same.

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    I never paid a bride to get my PAN (permanent account number) or passport or drivers license.
    For PAN, I didn't had to dish out anything as I applied it online, but I did pay 500 bucks for a driving license. No written test, no driving test.

    Originally posted by lemontree View Post
    The only exception was when I got bought a flat and got it registered, there the registration amount is taken in cash and the bride amount is fixed, it is handled through the brokers and you can really do nothing about it. It is institutionalised.

    It is not that I came across only honest officials, but I stuck to my principles as far as possible.
    My experience has rather been sad.
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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    • #17
      Name and shame them in here. Not surprising that the statistics on the home page puts Bangalore on the top.
      Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Firestorm View Post
        Which city is this? My city, Mumbai was once India's textile capital. Textile mills could be found all over the city and drew in workers from across India. The whole industry was destroyed because of of the unions. They orchestrated a city-wide strike in 1982. The mills closed during the strike and never opened up again. More than 200,000 workers were instantly left jobless. There was nothing the politicians or the bureaucrats could do. All the textile mills are defunct now, having been replaced by malls and housing complexes.

        IT hasn't been afflicted by unionism yet. No wonder the politicians like it. Indian bureaucrats are scumbags. The politicians even bigger ones. But they are not responsible for all the ills. After all, we elected them.
        Bangalore.

        Surprised to know those people lost their jobs and the politicos could do nothing. I was under the impression the workers would have a bigger say because they make for more constituents than owners. Votes vs corp sponsors, whichever is larger.

        Though there are unions and unions, if they are commie or overly leftist dominated then its an entirely different animal. In bombay the unions lost, in other places they win, then the owners just shift their operations to other more business friendly areas or close down. The threat of unions has got to be the biggest reason India could not make a global impact in manufacturing. Too damn risky and problematic.

        Originally posted by Oracle View Post
        Ah, here is where one gets away in India. Even if a design is faulty, one can get it passed by paying a bribe. Say for example, the town I belong to, there should be a gap of 5 feet from the boundary wall (when a house is constructed) on all 4 directions of the house. This is a municipal law and is primarily for 2 reasons -
        1. To prevent rainwater flooding neighbor's compound from ones' terrace and rooftop, during monsoon
        2. If there is fire, adjacent buildings are not directly affected.

        However, mostly in metros and in big cities these laws are flouted regularly. Anyone who visits India or have visited India would be privy to that.
        Heh, Pari's story sounds very familiar.

        Submit the plan to the municipal coroporation, deviate, then haggle over the fine, pay the fine, get the occupancy cert, home free :)

        Land is too damn expensive, the rules want too large a distance between the boundary wall and the structure which means smaller rooms. I see so many houses building very close to the boundary wall and then just paying the fine. The house after all is more or less a permanent structure. The fine is just a one off payment.

        Fire isn't too much of an issue here, our houses are all brick, concrete or mud. Not much wood used in the structure. Houses don't burn down here, they just get very blackened. Maybe the story is different in the north with colder climates but in the tropics this is how it is.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 10 Aug 13,, 12:24.

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        • #19
          This is sad but true. Anything above a kirana investment will require you to bribe the municipality about all sorts of things.

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          • #20
            Companies will not whine when corruption works to their advantage.

            So how would I compare the benefits with the damage of corruption for a given company, when I cannot know the 1st.

            PS
            Don't be a fool and argue that corruption will not benefit individual companies, because if that were the case companies would never engage in it.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
              I got my passport done in the mid 2000's and paid nothing. Course i stood in line for half a day. The people paying bribes want a rush job most of the time. They don't want to stand in line, they want their file moved to the top of the list. They don't want to follow procedure. They don't know or care to know. In this sense India offers you the option where as elsewhere you would just have to wait in line whether you liked it or not.

              The only time i've ever paid a bribe is in the land registry office. I wanted the paperwork done immediately, i could have waited longer and got it done for nothing but waiting wasn't an option.

              Setting up a business anywhere is tough if you don't know how the system works. You can spend years trying to figure it out or just get a fixer to do it for you. The n00bs tend to complain the most

              Many people have business in India and they get on just fine. With money you can get anything done in India. It could be faster and easier but this is what we have and deal with it. Setting up a business in just the first step, can't whine about that, ensuring its profitable is the bigger challenge. And there is where MNC's have a serious edge, with deeper pockets they can absorb losses for years before they need to become profitable. That's why they are feared so much.
              See, I'm not happy that greasing palms get things done faster in India, but it's not a problem that's going away anytime soon. So why not legalize it? Those who can afford express service for driving licences, passports, etc and want it, pay a "rush fee" and get it done early. Those who can't, pay a nominal fee and wait. The issuance of some government IDs in Canada does work this way.

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              • #22
                Great news for a f*** we call India. I have to pay 2 lacs for Khata, 1.75 lacs bribe. Shining Indian my arse. And that too with connection. A local Congress MLA, wants it - he says he needs the money for party fund for 2014 elections.

                Did I get free education? No. Did I get a reserved seat? No. Do I pay taxes? Yes.

                Someone should drop a nuclear bomb in this country, particularly in Delhi - Parliament.
                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                  Great news for a f*** we call India. I have to pay 2 lacs for Khata, 1.75 lacs bribe. Shining Indian my arse. And that too with connection. A local Congress MLA, wants it - he says he needs the money for party fund for 2014 elections.

                  Did I get free education? No. Did I get a reserved seat? No. Do I pay taxes? Yes.

                  Someone should drop a nuclear bomb in this country, particularly in Delhi - Parliament.
                  It is not the Parliament that is the problem. It is the mentality of the majority of Indians that keeps electing these people to the Parliament and keep them in power. Too many people remain ignorant or do not retain enough sense by way of lack of education or awareness that reducing corruption and understanding the sense that every service they ask for has to be paid for and is not free. They are too brainwashed by the commies and socialist leftniks that everything they want can be had for free or very dirt cheap.

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