In Okinawa, Talk of Break From Japan Turns Serious - NYT

[cdude]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/wo...&emc=rss&_r=1&

"Okinawans gathered to learn about a political idea that until recently few had dared to take seriously: declaring their island chain’s political independence from Japan."

[Linh_My]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/wo...&emc=rss&_r=1&

"Okinawans gathered to learn about a political idea that until recently few had dared to take seriously: declaring their island chain’s political independence from Japan."

As China has made some noises about Okinawa being part of China . . .

[cdude]

As China has made some noises about Okinawa being part of China . . .

I think you misspelled Diaoyudao/senkaku for Okinawa.

[Linh_My]

I think you misspelled Diaoyudao/senkaku for Okinawa.

Nope.

But, it was COL level speeches, not official Chinese policy, and likely intended more as a negotiating ploy. I've seen the same sort of stuff about allowing America to keep the Pacific from Hawaii East.

[cdude]

Nope.

But, it was COL level speeches, not official Chinese policy, and likely intended more as a negotiating ploy. I've seen the same sort of stuff about allowing America to keep the Pacific from Hawaii East.

Where's your evidence that it's a negotiating ploy? And what's the source when you're at it?

[Linh_My]

Where's your evidence that it's a negotiating ploy? And what's the source when you're at it?

If memory serves, got it from "Asia Times" and "The Diplomat" and perhaps others. I did identify the information as "noise." Noise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia more specifically I meant something similar to Meta noise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I do not normally log sources of noise.

Except for Taiwan, I have not been to China and make no claim to be an expert on China, though I do have college credit in Asian history. The issue is that sometimes, what seems to be noise can turn out to be valuable information. You seem to be taking what I consider to be "Noise" as if it is serious and proven data. It is not. It is the sort of thing that an investigator collects.

"likely intended more as a negotiating ploy" is what I consider reasonable speculation. If this is more than "noise," another likely speculation would be the ramblings of a mid level officer belonging to a more extreme faction in the Chinese Army.

I did word my post to imply poor data quality and added a speculation. I'm sorry if I failed to communicate that to you.

[Dreadnought]

And if they did that the US certainly would not support it. They would be left out to "dry" plain and simple to face China, North Korea etc.

[Mithridates]

Where's your evidence that it's a negotiating ploy? And what's the source when you're at it?

Not official policy, but officials have been making statements:

For many observers, rising frictions between China and Japan over a group of remote and uninhabited islands in the East China Sea are worrying enough.

But if some influential Chinese nationalist commentators have their way, the spat over the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands – which Beijing calls the Diaoyu – could widen into a dispute over a much more important archipelago.

In a fiery editorial earlier this month, the Global Times newspaper urged Beijing to consider challenging Japan’s control over its southern prefecture of Okinawa – an island chain with a population of 1.4m people that bristles with US military bases.

“China should not be afraid of engaging with Japan in a mutual undermining of territorial integrity,” the Communist party-run paper declared.

Major General Jin Yinan, head of the strategy research institute at China’s National Defense University, went even further. He told state radio that limiting discussion to the Diaoyu was “too narrow”, saying Beijing should question ownership of the whole Ryukyu archipelago – which by some definitions extends beyond Okinawa.

While the Chinese government has offered no endorsement of such radical views, their open espousal by senior commentators is likely to be deeply unsettling both to Japan and other neighbouring nations.

[Gun Grape]

here is where I wanted to post this

Having been stationed in Okinawa, I will say that this isn't a new idea. The older Okinawan's held a grudge against Americans for what they saw as betrayal when we turned the islands over to the Japanese in 1972.

Every one that I talked to said they had been promised independence or continued US civil administration.

BTW, they had no use for Japanese people either.

[Enzo Ferrari]

There is an argument to be made for Ryukyu independence (actually, a very strong one) but the PRC pushing for it is neither helping to reach that goal, nor very helpful to them self as the same standards applying to Tibet and elsewhere would be very problematic for them.

[Blademaster]

There is an argument to be made for Ryukyu independence (actually, a very strong one) but the PRC pushing for it is neither helping to reach that goal, nor very helpful to them self as the same standards applying to Tibet and elsewhere would be very problematic for them.

Exactly. If PRC pushes for Ryukyu independence, then Tibet and Taiwan should be free. PRC cannot have its cake and eat it.

[Skywatcher]

There is an argument to be made for Ryukyu independence (actually, a very strong one) but the PRC pushing for it is neither helping to reach that goal, nor very helpful to them self as the same standards applying to Tibet and elsewhere would be very problematic for them.

It's not official policy (which you should notice if you bothered to read the article). It's a talking point (like the South Korean noise about Tsushima) since Beijing got tired of various Japanese fringe people using Yakusuni as a red button issue and decided they needed their own issue to needle Japan with.

[Blademaster]

It's not official policy (which you should notice if you bothered to read the article). It's a talking point (like the South Korean noise about Tsushima) since Beijing got tired of various Japanese fringe people using Yakusuni as a red button issue and decided they needed their own issue to needle Japan with.

Well that will come back and bite China in its ass because it just opened up the issue of Tibet and Taiwan as well.

[Skywatcher]

Well that will come back and bite China in its ass because it just opened up the issue of Tibet and Taiwan as well.

But it's not being done as official government policy. It doesn't open up the Tibet issue in more meaningful manner than, say, than if the Daily Mail were to screech about Calais could support Spanish claims to Gibraltar.

[tbm3fan]

But it's not being done as official government policy. It doesn't open up the Tibet issue in more meaningful manner than, say, than if the Daily Mail were to screech about Calais could support Spanish claims to Gibraltar.

Ok, then tell me this. How much gets into the Chinese Press that is just the idea of their editorial staff vs. how much gets in which is floating an idea off the record? Politics being universal I think all pol's use the press to float ideas off the record to see the reaction. Just sometimes the idea takes on a momentum of it's own, within or outside said country, which could lead to all kinds of confusion, unintended consequences, reactions, and on and on...

Sorry for that last part as my son got to the computer while I had to step away.

What I meant to say concerning the Daily Mail making a comment of support, contrary to government stance, is that those things tend to take on a life of their own. The old adage about loose lips sink ships still applies today regarding ships and other forms of communication.