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Thread: LTC Bob Batemen's EXCELLENT series on Gettysburg in Esquire

  1. #31
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    They started the war. They lost. And we still have yet to collect our pound of flesh, especially when they took theirs from PoW. I will never stop supporting my Hong Kong guys from getting their just compensation from the Japanese just as I will never stop supporting former comfort women from getting what they need - an acknowledgement and compensation for the crimes comitted against them and in the case of unwanted children by the IJA, family support for that one generation.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    They started the war. They lost.
    Victor's sentiments and sense of justice. An argument can be made that western powers started the whole conflict by encroaching into the oriental sphere and to protect itself, japan had to make itself a strong foreign power, blah blah blah.


    And we still have yet to collect our pound of flesh, especially when they took theirs from PoW. I will never stop supporting my Hong Kong guys from getting their just compensation from the Japanese just as I will never stop supporting former comfort women from getting what they need - an acknowledgement and compensation for the crimes committed against them and in the case of unwanted children by the IJA, family support for that one generation.
    Fair enough just as I will never stop supporting Indians and others who have been harmed by the British occupiers and actions. They probably will never get compensation. So in that vein, I will never support any kind of compensation given to British citizens like i did not support the Lockerbie compensation because it was so lopsided and the British never gave any compensation to others in a fair fashion.

    The same way that US citizens demand compensations from other countries when USA refuses to compensate others or in the same manner as its citizens were compensated, i.e., the value of US citizens' lives are like 1o to 100 times the value of other countries' citizens' lives.
    Last edited by Blademaster; 17 Aug 13, at 16:44.

  3. #33
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    Note I do place a limit on one generation. The grandkids should have no say other than to get an apology for their grandmother ... which probably will happen 100 years from now.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Note I do place a limit on one generation. The grandkids should have no say other than to get an apology for their grandmother ... which probably will happen 100 years from now.
    And the western powers has placed that standards and then conveniently continue to deny reparations until the last member of the generation dies and then apologizes. So how is Japan doing any different from what Britain and US have done?

  5. #35
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    Nothing but that does not mean we let them off the hook, especially when they were the ones who lost the war that they started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Nothing but that does not mean we let them off the hook, especially when they were the ones who lost the war that they started.
    See my above edited comments in post #32

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    BM,

    Fair enough just as I will never stop supporting Indians and others who have been harmed by the British occupiers and actions. They probably will never get compensation. So in that vein, I will never support any kind of compensation given to British citizens like i did not support the Lockerbie compensation because it was so lopsided and the British never gave any compensation to others in a fair fashion.
    be careful when making this argument. this is a false equivalence. yes, british imperialism was no walk in the park, but as OoE said, given where "india" (a concept that didn't exist until the late-19th century) was in history, it wasn't a choice between british imperialism and freedom.

    it was going to be between british imperialism, or russian imperialism, or japanese imperialism. possibly french.

    and by far the least of the evils were the british. there is no comparison between the british and the japanese experience of 1895-1945.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Victor's sentiments and sense of justice. An argument can be made that western powers started the whole conflict by encroaching into the oriental sphere and to protect itself, japan had to make itself a strong foreign power, blah blah blah.
    By attacking China and Korea? Pearl Harbour happened because the US cut off oil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    The same way that US citizens demand compensations from other countries when USA refuses to compensate others or in the same manner as its citizens were compensated, i.e., the value of US citizens' lives are like 1o to 100 times the value of other countries' citizens' lives.
    The current actions of all former POWs and comfort women have no government support other than moral.

    In this sense, the US is no different than everybody else.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    BM,



    be careful when making this argument. this is a false equivalence. yes, british imperialism was no walk in the park, but as OoE said, given where "india" (a concept that didn't exist until the late-19th century) was in history, it wasn't a choice between british imperialism and freedom.

    it was going to be between british imperialism, or russian imperialism, or japanese imperialism. possibly french.

    and by far the least of the evils were the british. there is no comparison between the british and the japanese experience of 1895-1945.
    Astralis,

    BM is not judging the Russian or the Japanese or the Chinese. He is judging the actions of superpowers when they are on the different end of the stick.
    His example with India and Brits is valid just because it did happened that way. We can't know what would be if only, simply because it didn't happen.

    I am sure the Irish don't share your view as the Brits being the best possible scenario.
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    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    Desert SWO you are correct and above has amended his comments accordingly.

    That said I am arguing and extremely fine point based on actions taken by individuals based on actions taken by others....i.e. Lee/Thomas.

    Also when you see the numbers of who "went South" versus who stayed loyal to the Union there were a LOT of officers who remained true to their oath. That has always been where I ground my argument.

    And I do not try to convert others...but I will argue!

    Also I am making an historical point and do not try to apply actions to today's politicians. Know why? Because the politicians of 1840-1870 were much WORSE than who we have today.
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

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    Blademaster

    Yeah we suck....but we're better than most. And we do tend to prosecute our war criminals in most cases....though I would like to see a few more prosecutions vis-a-via Abu Ghraib and torture.
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    By attacking China and Korea? Pearl Harbour happened because the US cut off oil.
    What I am trying to say is if Japan won, she would have said that you guys, the western powers, started the whole thing by getting into China and Japan was fearing for her safety since you could be using China as a staging base to launch an invasion into Japan, et cetera et cetera.

    Hence, my point: Victor's sentiment and sense of justice.

    The current actions of all former POWs and comfort women have no government support other than moral.

    In this sense, the US is no different than everybody else.
    Some former hostages were trying to use the fed courts to seize Iranian assets as compensation. Don't know how far they got.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albany Rifles View Post
    Blademaster

    Yeah we suck....but we're better than most. And we do tend to prosecute our war criminals in most cases....though I would like to see a few more prosecutions vis-a-via Abu Ghraib and torture.
    I am not saying US is a bad country or it sucks. I believe in America and believe that America is a lot better country than many countries but don't expect me to think like a groupie. I know the limits of America's righteousness and morality and just cannot accept what some people are preaching regarding America's virtues.

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    Blademaster

    My "preaching" is reserved for home grown outrage. Even my occasional tirades against Japan is grounded of their treatment of other nations of Asia during WW 2.

    And their treatment of Allied POWs.
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
    ― T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    I am not saying US is a bad country or it sucks. I believe in America and believe that America is a lot better country than many countries but don't expect me to think like a groupie. I know the limits of America's righteousness and morality and just cannot accept what some people are preaching regarding America's virtues.
    It is still better then vast majority of the countries out there.
    Hey, nobody's perfect.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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