Soviet Surgical Strike 1969

**lwarmonger** · 24 Jun 13,, 06:28

Hello all. Back after a long hiatus. It was on this forum a number of years ago when I was in college that I had originally heard about a threatened Soviet surgical strike to take or destroy Lop Nor in the late 60's. I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of online sources or books (doesn't necessarily have to be online books, perfectly willing to order good source material off of amazon) that has good information on this?

Officer of Engineers · 24 Jun 13,, 15:17

Hello, Lieutenant,

If it's actual war plans you're looking for, you won't find them. They're still under lock and key somewhere in Moscow. A lot of what we know is deduced from deployments, particularily the 58th Army which was stationed in the North West border with China. The 58th had nukes and there was nothing of value in the entire area except Lop Nor.

The Chinese themselves had thought nuke strikes and thus prepared accordingly with a lot of earthworks, particularily hardened bunkers and tunnels. Short of nukes, the Soviets would be outmatched in numbers and terrain as well as a stretched LOC.

**lwarmonger** · 24 Jun 13,, 17:53

It's Captain now sir... was one of the last ones who snuck in at 37 months back in 2011. Actually just got done with the career course a couple of months ago and will be taking command of a tank company here in August.

Could you recommend any good books regarding context for the border clashes and subsequent Soviet buildup in this time period?

Officer of Engineers · 24 Jun 13,, 18:11

St Pete's slippers! Has it been that long. My congratulations. So proud and do proud.

The border clashes are listed ad nauseum through out the net. You can find both Russian and Chinese side of the story. As for the build up, there is no better source than the annual IISS MILITARY BALANCE of the years in question. Your base library should have copies of the years in question.

**Albany Rifles** · 24 Jun 13,, 19:40

ST Pete's slippers? Damn, that's a new one!

Iwarmonger, welcome back! You will find maneuver company command will be the most demanding,exhausting, maddening, frustrating, exhilirating and rewarding job you will ever hold.

Hope all is well.

Which BCT?

**bigross86** · 24 Jun 13,, 23:24

A fellow tankie? Well met!

**lwarmonger** · 25 Jun 13,, 01:21

I'm pretty pumped about it, although the unit is a pretty big change from where I came from. I'm in 2nd BDE, 1st Armored (the testing brigade), and this will be the first time since Armor OBC five years ago that I've been on tanks, so a bit of catching up to do. My last unit was a Stryker infantry battalion at Fort Lewis. We were really high optempo and very much a zero defect organization, and this BDE seems like it has a bit more give to it which is nice in some respects. On the other hand, El Paso and Ft Bliss are a pretty big adjustment from Lewis and Benning...

To OoE, thank you for the advice on the source material, I will take a look at the post library. That seems like it would be a good source material for many different things.

**Albany Rifles** · 25 Jun 13,, 01:30

Dude! I am the fielding branch chief for GCSS-Army and I will PM you some info!

Buck

**Doktor** · 25 Jun 13,, 01:39

Surgical strikes? 1969?

Soviets had that capability back then?

**lwarmonger** · 25 Jun 13,, 02:49

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

Dude! I am the fielding branch chief for GCSS-Army and I will PM you some info!

Buck

It is a small military-industrial complex out there! Look forward to it.

**zraver** · 25 Jun 13,, 19:05

Originally Posted by Doktor

Surgical strikes? 1969?

Soviets had that capability back then?

Yes- nukes and Chemical saturation attacks on a small target or group of targets. IIRC the Colonel had the link to documents where the Soviets claimed they told us so we wouldn't start WWIII and we told them it would start WWIII and they felt betrayed.

**Doktor** · 25 Jun 13,, 20:54

Hard task looking for it... but, I'll do my best, unless some good soul pastes a link.

**zraver** · 25 Jun 13,, 23:28

Originally Posted by Doktor

Hard task looking for it... but, I'll do my best, unless some good soul pastes a link.

Nixon intervention saved China from Soviet nuclear attack | South China Morning Post

**lwarmonger** · 26 Jun 13,, 04:09

Originally Posted by zraver

Nixon intervention saved China from Soviet nuclear attack | South China Morning Post

That one very recently came out though. As OOE stated earlier in the thread, almost anything solid with regards to this is still classified. Deductions made from Soviet redeployments at the time of the border clashes does give a bit of insight into one of the quieter (at least insofar as media attention) historical crisis.

**zraver** · 26 Jun 13,, 08:46

Originally Posted by lwarmonger

That one very recently came out though. As OOE stated earlier in the thread, almost anything solid with regards to this is still classified. Deductions made from Soviet redeployments at the time of the border clashes does give a bit of insight into one of the quieter (at least insofar as media attention) historical crisis.

The actual information came out a few years ago and the Colonel and other China watchers snapped it up. IIRC the Colonel holds that the Chinese were not even going to try and retaliate against the Soviets as it was a no-win situation for them. I'm not so sure I believe that but the Colonel makes a compelling argument.