Taliban kill 9 tourists in Pakistan

[Officer of Engineers]

Killing of this scale is not something you can hide under the rug, if something like this did happen you would have seen HR NGO's all over the news yelling at the top of their lungs.

Not to counter your points but HR NGOs ain't worth crap all unless there's a $10,000 a night hotel nearby. The scale of the Rwandan and the Cambodian Genocides were only learned when opposing armies overran the killing fields.

[lemontree]

This video says it all...

[Agnostic Muslim]

This video says it all...

A 5 minute propaganda video with oh so scary music produced by Indians? Really? That is how low you have to stoop to in order to come up with some sort of justification for your nonsensical claims?

BTW, the gentleman interviewed at approximately 1:00 minute into the video states that 'they have received information from military and secret agencies that the Taliban are present in some numbers there' and not what the caption states that 'the Taliban are receiving support from the military and intelligence agencies'. You people can't even translate Urdu properly now, or was that a deliberate misrepresentation of what the man said?

The journalist is also never shown actually speaking about 'the ISI promoting sectarianism and encouraging Sunni extremist Pashtuns and Punjabis to settle in G-B' as the narrator suggests. The last part about GB being 'treated as a colony by Pakistan with courts run under the Pakistani system and limited autonomy' is an accurate representation of the journalists comments. Some of these issues were supposed to have been settled with the reforms introduced under the previous PPP government, and I do not know how old this particular interview is to determine whether the comments were made before the reforms were implemented or after.

[Agnostic Muslim]

Not to counter your points but HR NGOs ain't worth crap all unless there's a $10,000 a night hotel nearby. The scale of the Rwandan and the Cambodian Genocides were only learned when opposing armies overran the killing fields.

GB is not an active conflict zone - add in the fact that there are numerous foreign mountaineering expeditions to the region in addition to travel by Pakistanis from other provinces and the argument that a 'genocide' or 'large scale ethnic/sectarian massacre' has been kept under wraps all these years lack credibility, especially if the allegations of 'ethnic/sectarian massacres' are based on propaganda (such as the video posted by Lemontree) openly distorting/misquoting the comments of local residents.

[notorious_eagle]

You can choose not to believe this, and it makes no difference to us. There was an atrocity committed in your country - the army again used mass killings against its own people, a repeat of the Bangla mindset. Your own people were wronged, and it is time you realised the evil done buy some of your generals that have caused immence harm to the fabric of your nation.

I am not posting artciles by Indian Intelligence resources, but they are available on the internet and you can access them.

Sir

I choose to believe what i believe based on the facts that are at hand instead of some B.S propaganda posted by the enemies of the State. A killing of this scale is impossible to hide under the rug, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that killings of this scale took place. GB is not an isolated area, it is a bustling tourist destination where Pakistanis from other provinces regularly venture into. Heck, even i have been there 8 times and encountered no problems what so ever. If this atrocity had taken place as you claim, the people of GB would have never forgiven the State and would have openly rebelled. But that is not the case, the people of GB are fierce patriots and that can be seen by the sheer number of Gilgit Baltistanis lining up to join NLI.

This video says it all...

I am at a loss of words Sir

To justify your own fallacy, you resort to posting a propaganda video. AM has done a fantastic job retorting the video, its a piece of garbage nothing else. One more point i would like to add in addition to AM's post, look at the landscape in the video. It resembles the landscape of Waziristan more than the landscape of GB.

[notorious_eagle]

Not to counter your points but HR NGOs ain't worth crap all unless there's a $10,000 a night hotel nearby. The scale of the Rwandan and the Cambodian Genocides were only learned when opposing armies overran the killing fields.

No arguments there Sir

Gen Dallaire's biography exposed the conduct of Kofi Annan, which was indeed quite appalling.

[lemontree]

Sir

I choose to believe what i believe based on the facts that are at hand instead of some B.S propaganda posted by the enemies of the State. A killing of this scale is impossible to hide under the rug, there is absolutely no evidence to suggest that killings of this scale took place. GB is not an isolated area, it is a bustling tourist destination where Pakistanis from other provinces regularly venture into. Heck, even i have been there 8 times and encountered no problems what so ever. If this atrocity had taken place as you claim, the people of GB would have never forgiven the State and would have openly rebelled. But that is not the case, the people of GB are fierce patriots and that can be seen by the sheer number of Gilgit Baltistanis lining up to join NLI.

You wanted proof, I gave you something with a Pakistani Journalist from Balistan.

I am at a loss of words Sir

To justify your own fallacy, you resort to posting a propaganda video. AM has done a fantastic job retorting the video, its a piece of garbage nothing else. One more point i would like to add in addition to AM's post, look at the landscape in the video. It resembles the landscape of Waziristan more than the landscape of GB.

I even have video's of Pak Army units executing unarmed men. Would you like to see them?

When I said that Balistan is a refuge for the Taliaban, permitted by Pak Army, I have provided evidence in the form of this video. Wheather you choose to blieve it or not does not matter. I proved my POV with media.

[lemontree]

A 5 minute propaganda video with oh so scary music produced by Indians? Really? That is how low you have to stoop to in order to come up with some sort of justification for your nonsensical claims?

The video is on the same lines as the BBC reported posted by me. So why grumble?

BTW, the gentleman interviewed at approximately 1:00 minute into the video states that 'they have received information from military and secret agencies that the Taliban are present in some numbers there' and not what the caption states that 'the Taliban are receiving support from the military and intelligence agencies'. You people can't even translate Urdu properly now, or was that a deliberate misrepresentation of what the man said?

Ok you can stop the BS here. There is no difference in the subtitles and what the Pakistani journalist is saying. Aslam Inqalabi is an active individual in Balistan.

The journalist is also never shown actually speaking about 'the ISI promoting sectarianism and encouraging Sunni extremist Pashtuns and Punjabis to settle in G-B' as the narrator suggests.

I never claimed he did, he was mainly speaking about the support Taliban was getting from PA/ISI to get refuge in Balistan. That is what this video is about, about the ISI patronage for Taliban in Balistan, and that the Taliban operate in the region with ISI/PA support and they do not carry out operations without the "OK" from ISI.

The mountaineers were most probably killed on ISI orders, based on some hare brained assumption.

[lemontree]

This is another video of how restive Balistan province is:
WARNING: Graphic video...47 Balti Shias were killed here.

Taliban propaganda video (incident in Quetta I think)

[Agnostic Muslim]

Ok you can stop the BS here. There is no difference in the subtitles and what the Pakistani journalist is saying. Aslam Inqalabi is an active individual in Balistan.

You don't understand Urdu then - there is a huge difference in what the journalist actually says in Urdu and what the caption states.

I never claimed he did, he was mainly speaking about the support Taliban was getting from PA/ISI to get refuge in Balistan. That is what this video is about, about the ISI patronage for Taliban in Balistan, and that the Taliban operate in the region with ISI/PA support and they do not carry out operations without the "OK" from ISI.

The narrator of the video claims that the journalist stated that 'the ISI is promoting sectarianism to subdue the freedom movement', but the journalist is never shown actually saying that. In conjunction with the blatant distortion of the journalists comments (pointed out above) it is pretty obvious this video is nothing more than a half arsed propaganda job out of India.

The mountaineers were most probably killed on ISI orders, based on some hare brained assumption.

The only 'hare brained assumption' is the one you offered here - the only 'State sponsored attack' theory (if you want to ignore the TTP claim of responsibility) that actually makes sense is one of Indian or Afghan military forces carrying out the terrorist attack.

[Agnostic Muslim]

Why I hate Chilas

I hear that Chilas is a ghost town these days, its inhabitants spooked by the killings of the international mountain climbers (and one Pakistani guide who had a Shia name), who were camping at Nanga Parbat’s Diamer Face base camp at almost 4,200 meters above sea level. That meant the attackers had to climb up almost 18 hours and needed to be skilled climbers – that indicates that they were no ordinary Taliban from the plains or even the tribal areas (the Tehreek-e-Taliban spokesman has claimed that the assault was carried out by its sub group, Jund-ul Hifsa). They had to be locals who were familiar with the high mountain terrain and could climb up to those heights without suffering from altitude sickness. Indeed the Chief Secretary of the area has claimed that the terrorists belong to banned organisations with 10 from Diamer, three from Kohistan and two from Manshera. Both the police chief and Chief Secretary say the Diamer jirga has helped them identify the accused, who are now hiding somewhere in the valley.

They did not rule out the possibility of the same group’s involvement in last year’s attacks targeting Shia passengers in Lulusar and Kohistan. Chilas is of course the capital of Diamer District and is a small town located on the left bank of the Indus River. The Karakoram Highway (KKH) passes right through it and there is a PTDC motel for travelers going onwards to Gilgit and Skardu. For me, it has always been a creepy place where women are nowhere to be seen and bearded men carry guns and stare at you with hostility – I always avoid stopping there while going by road to Gilgit or Hunza from Islamabad on the KKH. Last April, a crazed mob in Chilas town ended up lynching 9 Shia bus passengers traveling on the KKH. People from Chilas are inward looking and Wahabi-influenced – not at all progressive and tolerant like the predominantly Ismaili/Shia population of Gilgit, Hunza and Skardu. The towering mountains that ring Chilas are marked with huge SSP (Sipah-i-Sahaba) signs (although the organisation is now banned in Pakistan), and the main bazaar is named Muawiya Chowk. Need I say more?

For many years, the villagers of Chilas have prevented the government from building a larger airport with a longer runway on their relatively flat land (which would make it so much easier for tourists going to Gilgit and Hunza), for fear of an influx of outsiders to their area. The tiny airport at Chilas is currently closed for domestic flights and the town can only be reached through the KKH and also from the Kaghan valley passing over the Babusar Pass.

...

Why I hate Chilas - DAWN.COM

[Tronic]

You don't understand Urdu then - there is a huge difference in what the journalist actually says in Urdu and what the caption states.

Clasping on to straws, really. The man's accent, and his poor grammatical composition, makes clear that urdu is not his first language. But than, you engage every discussion like a lawyer, attempting to come out on top, even if it means clutching on to strawman arguments. The gist of what he's trying to say comes out in the video as he refers to Gilgit being a peaceful region until the Pakistani takeover in '47. He's clearly not a fan of the Pakistani occupation.

I've long argued against India repressing Kashmiris, often rooted on the sidelines by Pakistanis. I just can't digest the hypocrisy; the minute you put in front the fact that no matter how bad India has treated the people of erstwhile J&K, Pakistan has treated them far worse, you get responses such as yours.

[Agnostic Muslim]

Clasping on to straws, really. The man's accent, and his poor grammatical composition, makes clear that urdu is not his first language. But than, you engage every discussion like a lawyer, attempting to come out on top, even if it means clutching on to strawman arguments. The gist of what he's trying to say comes out in the video as he refers to Gilgit being a peaceful region until the Pakistani takeover in '47. He's clearly not a fan of the Pakistani occupation.

When confronted with clear evidence of the video distorting the journalists comments to imply nothing even close to what he actually said, you want to resort to excuses about 'poor grammatical composition' and 'the gist of the comments', and then argue that I am the one 'clutching to strawman arguments'? How absurd.

Interpreting the journalists comments to support the caption of 'ISI/Army is supporting the TTP' would require more than just 'poor grammatical composition', it would require turning the language upside down. And even if you want to cling to the absurd excuse of 'poor grammatical composition', how on earth can you claim to know that YOUR interpretation of the 'gist of his comments' is accurate, given said 'poor grammatical composition'?

And with respect to the journalist 'not being a fan of Pakistan administering the region', please note my comments accepting the validity of demands for 'reforms' in GB.

[Doktor]

Isn't TTP enemy of Pakistan?

[Tronic]

When confronted with clear evidence of the video distorting the journalists comments to imply nothing even close to what he actually said, you want to resort to excuses about 'poor grammatical composition' and 'the gist of the comments', and then argue that I am the one 'clutching to strawman arguments'? How absurd.

Interpreting the journalists comments to support the caption of 'ISI/Army is supporting the TTP' would require more than just 'poor grammatical composition', it would require turning the language upside down. And even if you want to cling to the absurd excuse of 'poor grammatical composition', how on earth can you claim to know that YOUR interpretation of the 'gist of his comments' is accurate, given said 'poor grammatical composition'?

And with respect to the journalist 'not being a fan of Pakistan administering the region', please note my comments accepting the validity of demands for 'reforms' in GB.

I only gave you the benefit of doubt, so don't go running with it. Cut the BS. We know what he said.

Jump to 4:00, and he directly blames the instability and rising violence in Gilgit on the Pakistan state's presence in the region. Lost in translation again?