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Thread: Pakistan influence on Taliban commanders helped Afghan breakthrough

  1. #31
    Contributor 1980s's Avatar
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    As always, an interesting insight by Amrullah Saleh on the contrast between Pakistani influence over the Taliban and Iranian influence in Afghanistan.


  2. #32
    Staff Emeritus Julie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    Ask BigFella - he raised the issue. I'll respond when someone dredges out a comment of mine and distorts it.
    I'm going to dredge out a portion of the article you posted if you don't mind.

    The Taliban movement was born in Afghan refugee camps in Pakistan during the Soviet Union's 1979-1989 occupation of Afghanistan. In 1996, Taliban soldiers swept through their nation and took control of Kabul, many say with the support of Pakistan's army and its ubiquitous spy agency, the ISI.
    I am sure you will correct me if I'm wrong, but according to this article, Pakistan was responsible for the birth of the Taliban-led Afghanistan. Now, Pakistan wants credit, and high-fives, for setting up talks to straighten out a bad situation that Pakistan created to begin with ???

    Just so you know, when I'm looking for answers, I don't kick my foot around in the sand, I dig deep to find the cause of the problem because the rest will fall as it may.

  3. #33
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    AM is simply mouth breathing stupid - it goes past mere trolling. Unfortunately he doesn't realize he is a total idiot which is why we get regular "gems" from him.

    The fact he opens a thread to glorify Pakistan's role in supporting the Taliban, in an attempt to make Pakistan look good, is further proof. Fortunately the man won't be breeding.

    "Yes we armed, housed, and protected them for a decade after 9/11 but we are not state sponsors of terrorism."

    Kerry calls Karzai to allay Afghan president’s anger over opening of Taliban office in Qatar

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...25d_story.html

    By Associated Press, Published: June 19

    WASHINGTON — Secretary of State John Kerry on Wednesday made his second call to the Afghan president in 24 hours to ease Hamid Karzai’s anger over the rollout of the Taliban’s new political office in Qatar — a rift that temporarily delayed U.S. talks with the militant group set to begin later this week.

    Karzai was upset that when it opened its new office Tuesday in Qatar, the Taliban used its formal name, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, which is what it used when it was in power more than a decade ago. Afghan officials said that violated an agreement that the office should open only for negotiations, not as a political entity like a parallel institution to the Afghan government.

    By hosting a Doha-based Taliban delegation, Iran might have given a political boost to longtime enemy.

    An angry Karzai halted negotiations with the U.S. on a future bilateral security agreement, which will govern U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan after 2014 when most international forces will have completed their withdrawal from the country. And he said he no longer would send representatives from his High Peace Council to Qatar for talks with the Taliban, presumably to be held a few days after Taliban talks with the Americans.

    On Tuesday, State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said James Dobbins, U.S. special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, was scheduled to leave Washington to visit Turkey, Qatar, Afghanistan and Pakistan, focusing primarily on “reconciliation efforts.” But then on Wednesday, she said Dobbins had not yet left Washington and she acknowledged that the turmoil over how the office was opened had affected his travel plans.

    An American official, speaking anonymously because he was not authorized to disclose the information, said a U.S. official still expected to have the first public meeting with Taliban representatives — and the first meeting between the two in more than 1 1/2 years — in the next few days in Qatar, but that no exact date had been set.

    The Obama administration said the U.S. and Qatar never had agreed to allow the Taliban to use that name on the door and blamed the Taliban for engaging in a game of one-upmanship.

    Psaki said that in calls to Karzai on Tuesday night and Wednesday, Secretary of State John Kerry reiterated that the U.S. does not recognize the name Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

    “He (Kerry) noted that the government of Qatar has taken steps today to ensure that the political office is in compliance with the conditions established by the government of Qatar for its operations and noted also that we are pleased that the Qatari Ministry of Foreign Affairs has issued a statement clarifying that the name of the office is the Political Office of the Afghan Taliban and not the Political Office of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and has had the sign with the incorrect name in front of the door taken down,” Psaki said.

    The consensus among U.S. officials was that the government of Qatar was as surprised as the Obama administration that the Taliban hoisted its flag at the opening of the office on Tuesday and used a banner that named it the Political Office of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

    Psaki did not comment on Karzai’s decision to suspend talks on the U.S.-Afghan bilateral security agreement, saying only that the U.S. remained committed to continuing negotiations to craft a pact that supports shared objectives.

    Asked whether the Obama administration was “taken aback” by Karzai’s reaction, Psaki replied: “Taken aback would be an overstatement. I don’t think we went into any of this process here expecting that everything would be a smooth and sunny road.”

    Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistribute
    Last edited by troung; 21 Jun 13, at 04:42.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  4. #34
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    And why do you believe I subscribe to the views you have attributed to me?
    Because of all of your posts and you obvious interest in having Pakistan as a brokering party.

    Let me ask a direct question, if there is a possibility of a peaceful future for Afghanistan while it is completely outside any Pakistani sphere of influence, would that be acceptable to you?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  5. #35
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    The talks if they ever happen are doomed to failure, as the Taliban is respresenting themselves as the officials of the "Islamic Emirates of Aghanistan" i.e as the govt of Afghanistan. This is obviously not acceptable to the current Govt in Afghanistan.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

  6. #36
    Officer of Engineers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    The US and Afghan government's wanted talks with the Taliban leadership, Pakistan assisted in bringing that about - quit complaining about everything.
    And you said you wanted the drones transfered so that you can kill these fucks. Now, we learned that you've been kissy and huggy with them all along.

    You don't want the drones so that you can kill these fucks. You wanted these drones so that you can kill the Indians and sell to the Chinese.

  7. #37
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Time to dredge this old clip up, listen carefully from 2 minutes in

    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  8. #38
    Idiot Mode [ON] OFF Senior Contributor YellowFever's Avatar
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    ^pari,that's blocked in the US for copyright reasons...

  9. #39
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  10. #40
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellowFever View Post
    ^pari,that's blocked in the US for copyright reasons...
    If you can't see Dok's one either, basically Musharraf is asked is it true Pakistan via the ISI maintains terrorist training camps. Musharraf replies with a spiel that RAW has been sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan since time immemorial and YES the ISI does exactly the same thing, both are naughty and everyone should work together to stop them.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  11. #41
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    It's not word by word, but it has all the points...

    Musharraf Q & A Transcript of Delhi Lecture | Musharraf Supporters
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  12. #42
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    The back stabbing by Pakistanis....
    Last edited by lemontree; 21 Jun 13, at 13:00.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

  13. #43
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
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    AM is enjoying his time it seems, or is it the other way around?
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  14. #44
    Staff Emeritus Julie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    The talks if they ever happen are doomed to failure, as the Taliban is respresenting themselves as the officials of the "Islamic Emirates of Aghanistan" i.e as the govt of Afghanistan. This is obviously not acceptable to the current Govt in Afghanistan.
    So will Afghanistan be another two-headed entity as compared to Pakistan? The Islamic Emirates (Taliban) will rule the country as ISI rules Pakistan and the President placed as a yard ornament?

  15. #45
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    And you said you wanted the drones transfered so that you can kill these fucks. Now, we learned that you've been kissy and huggy with them all along.

    You don't want the drones so that you can kill these fucks. You wanted these drones so that you can kill the Indians and sell to the Chinese.
    Did you miss the part that mentioned the US governments involvement in arranging these peace talks? My point on the drones is still valid, including the part about the absurdity of your claim that Pakistan wants to 'use the drones against India and/or sell them to the Chinese'.
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
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