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  • #76
    Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    I don't think the NSA has anything over Chevron. Try working in their HQ, in San Ramon, and see exactly how much it is like Big Brother and 1984 all rolled into one. One would not believe what all their employees work under in the name of "safety".
    All the current "big" data mining tools that are used by a significant number of Govts are derived from or are straight COTS products. Ie they were all developed in the private sector for use by marketing and internet companies and have been onsold to Govts for similar duties.

    I'm somewhat bemused by people getting hysterical about Govts and metadata management when Govt is actually still trying to catch up to whats happening in the private sector.

    People are generally fundamentally clueless about what happens beyond their keyboard and yet get excited at Govt harvesting of publicly available metadata.
    The fact that other countries are making hay at the USG discomfort is somewhat expected, but its a bit cute by half when you consider that some of the aggrieved wailers are doing exactly the same (albeit on a smaller scale)
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    • #77
      Meanwhile...


      A secret court overseeing government surveillance programs has sided with Yahoo and ordered the Obama administration to declassify and publish a 2008 court decision justifying Prism, the data collection program revealed last month by the former security contractor Edward J. Snowden. Judge Reggie Walton issued the ruling on Monday, and the government is expected to decide by Aug. 26 which parts of the decision may be published, according to a separate court filing by the Justice Department. Publication could give a rare glimpse of how the government has legally justified data collection under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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      • #78
        Secret court OKs continued US phone surveillance program for another three months
        July 20, 2013

        The secret intelligence court that signs off on giving the U.S. government the authority to monitor hundreds of millions of telephone records has renewed the government’s request to do so for another three months. The surveillance program has been under intense scrutiny since June, when former CIA employee and National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden leaked details of two top secret U.S. surveillance programs that critics say violate privacy rights. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence announced Friday its authority to maintain the program expired on July 19 and that the government had sought and received a renewal from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court.
        Source: Fox News

        Apparently, the FISA Court agrees that the NSA data-mining programs are adhering to legal restrictions.
        sigpic

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        • #79
          [QUOTE=Minskaya;924010]Source: Fox News


          Seeing as the court has never said no to the NSA that doesn't mean much. A rubber stamp kangaroo court is a rubber stamp kangaroo court no matter what you call it.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            A rubber stamp kangaroo court is a rubber stamp kangaroo court no matter what you call it.
            FISA Court → FICA Court → Supreme Court

            However you wish to characterize it, this process has been the law of your land for the past thirty-five years.
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            • #81
              and when over that time it finds that a government that is famous for the way it makes mistakes from buying nuts and bolts, to passing discriminatory laws to inspecting space shuttles is never wrong when it comes to secret warrants.... hop hop hop goes the kangaroo...

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              • #82
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                and when over that time it finds that a government that is famous for the way it makes mistakes from buying nuts and bolts, to passing discriminatory laws to inspecting space shuttles is never wrong when it comes to secret warrants.... hop hop hop goes the kangaroo...
                Well now, isn't life strange? Agnostic Muslim feels the same way about the secret US drone program.
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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                  Well now, isn't life strange? Agnostic Muslim feels the same way about the secret US drone program.
                  It's in Z's interest the drone program carries on.And it's in his interest it carries on Pakistanis,not Americans.Life is strange,bt only if want to think yourself neutral.Which neither of us ever is
                  Those who know don't speak
                  He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                    Well now, isn't life strange? Agnostic Muslim feels the same way about the secret US drone program.
                    Drone strikes- acts of war in a legal war measured by the criteria of distinction and proportional response.

                    Now if you wish to assume that perhaps the NSA is waging war on Americans and thus use CIL/LOAC in this discussion we can.

                    There is nothing distinctive about trolling every piece of digital data nor is there anything proportional about assume every American is a terrorist militant planning an attack.

                    Mihais,

                    It's in Z's interest the drone program carries on.And it's in his interest it carries on Pakistanis,not Americans.Life is strange,bt only if want to think yourself neutral.Which neither of us ever is
                    The NSA's actions are not in my interest or in the interest of America in that it does not serve liberty and does not advance the cause of freedom. It is an attack on liberty and freedom.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by zraver View Post
                      There is nothing distinctive about trolling every piece of digital data nor is there anything proportional about assume every American is a terrorist militant planning an attack.
                      Your physical and digital data is collected/analyzed/stored every day by governments and commerce in innumerable ways.

                      An example I posted just a few days ago.

                      Not a paranoid peep from anyone on this board.
                      sigpic

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                        Your physical and digital data is collected/analyzed/stored every day by governments and commerce in innumerable ways.

                        An example I posted just a few days ago.

                        Not a paranoid peep from anyone on this board.
                        Very bad example since I pay the government for the right to be a licensed participant in that part of the public sphere and have no legal expectation of privacy there.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by zraver View Post
                          Very bad example since I pay the government for the right to be a licensed participant in that part of the public sphere and have no legal expectation of privacy there.
                          You just don't get it. You're simply going to pick and choose until there's nothing left to pick and choose.

                          Edit: By the way, RFID chips embedded in the plates are the next step. Connecticut is already considering implementing this technology.
                          Last edited by Minskaya; 20 Jul 13,, 19:43. Reason: added edit
                          sigpic

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                            You just don't get it. You're simply going to pick and choose until there's nothing left to pick and choose.

                            Edit: By the way, RFID chips embedded in the plates are the next step. Connecticut is already considering implementing this technology.
                            No you don't get it, registering cars and driving on public roads are in the public sphere. What words I put in an email, especially to a fellow American are not in the public sphere. In fact i have a constitutinal right to be secure in my papers and effects (writings) unless a warrant is issued and there is a constitutional ban on general warrants.

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                            • #89
                              House rejects bid to curb spy agency data collection
                              Wed Jul 24, 2013

                              A U.S. spy program that sweeps up vast amounts of electronic communications survived a legislative challenge in the House of Representatives on Wednesday, the first attempt to curb the data gathering since former NSA contractor Edward Snowden revealed details of its scope. The House of Representatives voted 217-205 to defeat an amendment to the defense appropriations bill that would have limited the National Security Agency's ability to collect electronic information, including phone call records.

                              Republican Representative Tom Cotton, who endorsed the NSA program, described the "metadata" being collected as essentially a five-column spreadsheet containing the number called, the number of the caller, the date, the time and the duration of call. "This program has stopped dozens of terrorist attacks," Cotton said. "That means it has saved untold American lives. This amendment ... does not limit the program, it does not modify it, it does not constrain the program, it ends the program. It blows it up." Cotton, a former Army captain who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, said a comprehensive set of phone call records was needed in order for the program to work. "If you want to search for a needle in a haystack, you have to have the haystack. This (amendment) takes a leaf-blower and blows away they entire haystack. You will not have this program if this amendment passes."

                              Representatives Mike Rogers of Michigan and Dutch Ruppersberger of Maryland, the Republican chairman and senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said in a statement after the vote that the amendment would have eliminated a "crucial counterterrorism tool." "The charge that the program tramples on the privacy of citizens is simply wrong," they said, promising to work to build public confidence in the program's privacy protections. The House overwhelming approved a separate amendment dealing with the NSA surveillance program that was billed as an alternative to the Amash amendment. Critics charged that the measure only restated current law, which prevents collection of the content of emails and phone calls, and would not deal with collection of "metadata."
                              Source: Reuters
                              sigpic

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                                What words I put in an email, especially to a fellow American are not in the public sphere. In fact i have a constitutional right to be secure in my papers and effects (writings) unless a warrant is issued and there is a constitutional ban on general warrants.
                                Absolutely agree .The recipient is the only one privy to the info ,,unless as you say , a warrant is issued ,,and usually thats for nat interest , ie , terrorist activities .
                                Last edited by tankie; 25 Jul 13,, 09:00.

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