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Thread: The NSA

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    Whom are you referring to here?
    The Pakistani government,of course

    Just joking.I mean national interests.And the way our economic,political and long term resilience of the country have been undermined by willful complicity of our state.

    Dok,paying attention is duty.Being pi$$ed is also duty.And eliminating foes at the Motherland's command is,again,duty.

    From this pov,the NSA is worthy of congratulations.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parihaka View Post
    I hadn't heard of the Clinton/UN thing, can you give me more detail please?
    WikiLeaks: Hillary Clinton ordered U.S. diplomats to spy on UN leaders | Mail Online
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
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  3. #18
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    WL is not welcommed on this forum.

    Just saying
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  4. #19
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    pari,



    isn't this simply an assumption? were it true, then -every- company would want to sign on, and companies that were left out would probably sue. moreover, the stocks/profits for each of those businesses would be skyrocketing given that they have such a valuable asset.
    13.4- The Bible- ''Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the good general to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond the reach of ordinary men, is foreknowledge. '' So,watch for success
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Dok,paying attention is duty.Being pi$$ed is also duty.And eliminating foes at the Motherland's command is,again,duty.
    Call of Duty

    Never heard of guards falling a sleep when on duty?
    Thing is people are just tired seeing how risking their own and other peoples lives is in vein. After a while many give up.

    From this pov,the NSA is worthy of congratulations.
    If John and Jane reap anything from all this, yes.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
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    That's true and understandable.I see it every day.But some are fanatics.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  7. #22
    Senior Contributor DOR's Avatar
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    What data was collected? The fact that communication took place, not the content.

    How might that be useful? It provides the basis for backtracking from, say, one of the Boston Bastards to other potential threats.

    Did the Obama Administration dream this up on its own? No.

    Would closing it down "help the terrorists" ? Couldn't hurt (the terrorists), but you'll not see the Right admit that.

    Am I partisan? Yep, just like everyone else.

  8. #23
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    pari,



    isn't this simply an assumption? were it true, then -every- company would want to sign on, and companies that were left out would probably sue. moreover, the stocks/profits for each of those businesses would be skyrocketing given that they have such a valuable asset.
    Not according to the French. Here's dear old mother jones version of events in American for you
    Help wanted: spying on allies | Mother Jones
    Last edited by Parihaka; 10 Jun 13, at 15:06.
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  9. #24
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOR View Post
    What data was collected? The fact that communication took place, not the content.
    Not according to page three.
    NSA slides explain the PRISM data-collection program - The Washington Post
    I await the other 38 pages with bated breath
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    *Eating fingernails*
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  11. #26
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    pari,

    this is an article from june 1995 which references the CIA, not the NSA. it seems a jump to me to state that PRISM was also used by the NSA in conjunction with american companies for economic espionage. in fact, as the article you posted states,

    The Washington Post retracted part of its story about Prism in which it said that the companies "knowingly" participated. Instead, it quotes a report which says that "collection managers [could send] content tasking instructions directly to equipment installed at company-controlled locations".
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Asty,

    We, as Non-Americans don't care if it is FBI, NSA, CIA, DEA, ATF, another 3 letter agency we heard or never heard off.

    What we do care is that we are monitored. By a foreign government who does have 0 jurisdiction here.

    Moreover, in part, it was made possible by our spineless politicos.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  13. #28
    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    Brings to mind a particular test that transpired around 2007. It was a speed test for a new data-transfer protocol developed by Fermilab and the University of Chicago. The thrust here was to increase the performance of networks involved in the mining of astronomical data. In < 20 minutes, the new protocol transferred enough data to fill the Sears Tower with written material. I remember thinking at the time that the NSA folks just might be interested in something like this.

  14. #29
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    describes my feelings on the matter quite succintly.

    ----

    Edward Snowden, the N.S.A. Leaker, Is No Hero : The New Yorker

    Edward Snowden Is No Hero
    Posted by Jeffrey Toobin

    Edward Snowden, a twenty-nine-year-old former C.I.A. employee and current government contractor, has leaked news of National Security Agency programs that collect vast amounts of information about the telephone calls made by millions of Americans, as well as e-mails and other files of foreign targets and their American connections. For this, some, including my colleague John Cassidy, are hailing him as a hero and a whistle-blower. He is neither. He is, rather, a grandiose narcissist who deserves to be in prison.

    Snowden provided information to the Washington Post and the Guardian, which also posted a video interview with him. In it, he describes himself as appalled by the government he served:

    The N.S.A. has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your e-mails or your wife’s phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your e-mails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.

    I don’t want to live in a society that does these sort of things… I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under.


    What, one wonders, did Snowden think the N.S.A. did? Any marginally attentive citizen, much less N.S.A. employee or contractor, knows that the entire mission of the agency is to intercept electronic communications. Perhaps he thought that the N.S.A. operated only outside the United States; in that case, he hadn’t been paying very close attention. In any event, Snowden decided that he does not “want to live in a society” that intercepts private communications. His latter-day conversion is dubious.

    And what of his decision to leak the documents? Doing so was, as he more or less acknowledges, a crime. Any government employee or contractor is warned repeatedly that the unauthorized disclosure of classified information is a crime. But Snowden, apparently, was answering to a higher calling. “When you see everything you realize that some of these things are abusive,” he said. “The awareness of wrongdoing builds up. There was not one morning when I woke up. It was a natural process.” These were legally authorized programs; in the case of Verizon Business’s phone records, Snowden certainly knew this, because he leaked the very court order that approved the continuation of the project. So he wasn’t blowing the whistle on anything illegal; he was exposing something that failed to meet his own standards of propriety. The question, of course, is whether the government can function when all of its employees (and contractors) can take it upon themselves to sabotage the programs they don’t like. That’s what Snowden has done.

    What makes leak cases difficult is that some leaking—some interaction between reporters and sources who have access to classified information—is normal, even indispensable, in a society with a free press. It’s not easy to draw the line between those kinds of healthy encounters and the wholesale, reckless dumping of classified information by the likes of Snowden or Bradley Manning. Indeed, Snowden was so irresponsible in what he gave the Guardian and the Post that even these institutions thought some of it should not be disseminated to the public. The Post decided to publish only four of the forty-one slides that Snowden provided. Its exercise of judgment suggests the absence of Snowden’s.

    Snowden fled to Hong Kong when he knew publication of his leaks was imminent. In his interview, he said he went there because “they have a spirited commitment to free speech and the right of political dissent.” This may be true, in some limited way, but the overriding fact is that Hong Kong is part of China, which is, as Snowden knows, a stalwart adversary of the United States in intelligence matters. (Evan Osnos has more on that.) Snowden is now at the mercy of the Chinese leaders who run Hong Kong. As a result, all of Snowden’s secrets may wind up in the hands of the Chinese government—which has no commitment at all to free speech or the right to political dissent. And that makes Snowden a hero?

    The American government, and its democracy, are flawed institutions. But our system offers legal options to disgruntled government employees and contractors. They can take advantage of federal whistle-blower laws; they can bring their complaints to Congress; they can try to protest within the institutions where they work. But Snowden did none of this. Instead, in an act that speaks more to his ego than his conscience, he threw the secrets he knew up in the air—and trusted, somehow, that good would come of it. We all now have to hope that he’s right.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

  15. #30
    Dirty Kiwi Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    pari,

    this is an article from june 1995 which references the CIA, not the NSA. it seems a jump to me to state that PRISM was also used by the NSA in conjunction with american companies for economic espionage. in fact, as the article you posted states,
    So you don't think US intelligence agencies partners with US companies any more?
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

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