Page 2 of 14 FirstFirst 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 196

Thread: Documentary = Afghanistan: The Price of Revenge

  1. #16
    Officer of Engineers
    Guest
    It's a damned face saving lie. You and both know that a bloodbath is coming and you and I both know who's going to do the most bleeding and it ain't the ANA.

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Apr 08
    Location
    Transylvania
    Posts
    5,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    The US had reasons to ask for the detention, trial, extradition of alleged AQ leaders involved in attacks on US interests, but the Taliban were also justified in asking for evidence and/or negotiations with the US before acceding to US demands.


    Given the human and economic cost of the past ten years in the region, and the current push to arrive at a negotiated end to the Taliban led insurgency, it is pretty obvious that attacking Afghanistan was not the right thing to do.
    Alleged?This is not a court and justice does not apply to external foes.The AQ declared war on US.They attacked US interests worldwide and they admitted so.You ally with those that declare war,you're an enemy as well.You die.Simple as that.

    The conduct of the war by the command of lawyers is the single mistake in A-stan.That WILL change in the future.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  3. #18
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Dec 07
    Location
    Michigan/Lahore
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Alleged?This is not a court and justice does not apply to external foes.The AQ declared war on US.They attacked US interests worldwide and they admitted so.You ally with those that declare war,you're an enemy as well.You die.Simple as that.
    OBL actually denied being involved in the /11 attacks until after the invasion of Afghanistan, and the fact that you admit that there was no 'justice' supports my point that the Afghanistan invasion was not 'the right thing to do'.

    The conduct of the war by the command of lawyers is the single mistake in A-stan.That WILL change in the future.
    The Soviets tried the other route and they fared far worse than NATO has, and I see no 'change in conduct' given that the majority of NATO forces are withdrawing from Afghanistan.
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

  4. #19
    Global Moderator
    Comrade Commissar
    TopHatter's Avatar
    Join Date
    03 Sep 03
    Posts
    15,914
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Can you show a source that 200,000+ civilians are dead from the military operations during NATO led operation?
    I doubt he can but it does look impressive to through out the vague yet grisly phrase "hundreds of thousands of dead civilians"

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    OBL actually denied being involved in the /11 attacks until after the invasion of Afghanistan, and the fact that you admit that there was no 'justice' supports my point that the Afghanistan invasion was not 'the right thing to do'.
    What Mihais actually said was "The AQ declared war on US.They attacked US interests worldwide and they admitted so." And this is demonstrably true years before 9/11.

    In February 1998, Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri co-signed a fatwa in the name of the World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders, which declared the killing of North Americans and their allies an "individual duty for every Muslim" to "liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque (in Jerusalem) and the holy mosque (in Mecca) from their grip". At the public announcement of the fatwa bin Laden announced that North Americans are "very easy targets". He told the attending journalists, "You will see the results of this in a very short time."
    Nice try though.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, than to take rank with those poor, timid spirits who know neither victory nor defeat ~ Theodore Roosevelt

  5. #20
    Global Moderator
    Military Professional
    Chogy's Avatar
    Join Date
    28 Apr 09
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,754
    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    OBL actually denied being involved in the /11 attacks until after the invasion of Afghanistan, and the fact that you admit that there was no 'justice' supports my point that the Afghanistan invasion was not 'the right thing to do'.
    Oh please, you're a smart guy. We all know that 9/11 was orchestrated and carried out by OBL and AQ.

    After an attack of that magnitude, we're supposed to say "pretty please with sugar on top?" The real failure in Afghanistan was in keeping the hounds leashed, and attempting the stupidity that is known as "nation building."

  6. #21
    Officer of Engineers
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Oh please, you're a smart guy. We all know that 9/11 was orchestrated and carried out by OBL and AQ.
    He's a damned Taliban apologist.

  7. #22
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Dec 07
    Location
    Michigan/Lahore
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    Oh please, you're a smart guy. We all know that 9/11 was orchestrated and carried out by OBL and AQ.
    My point is that OBL was denying any involvement in the 9/11 attacks publicly (he accepted responsibility after the Afghan invasion), and given his support for the Mujahideen and the Taliban, the Taliban were justified in calling for negotiations to arrive at some mutually acceptable solution to the issue.

    After an attack of that magnitude, we're supposed to say "pretty please with sugar on top?"
    The Taliban publicly communicated a willingness to negotiate a solution to the issue of OBL/AQ, and conducting negotiations over the course of a few months to rule out a non-military solution to the issue should have been the first step.
    The real failure in Afghanistan was in keeping the hounds leashed, and attempting the stupidity that is known as "nation building."
    Again, the Soviets tried 'unleashing the hounds' and they fared far worse. The theory behind 'nation building' is sound, in that criminal entities flourish in an environment of chaos and anarchy. The alternative to 'nation building' would have been to engage in the very process you reject - attempting negotiations with the Taliban and attempting to work through the existing regime to stabilize the country.
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

  8. #23
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Dec 07
    Location
    Michigan/Lahore
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    He's a damned Taliban apologist.
    More of a realist pointing out how US foreign policy was flawed in terms of choosing to invade Afghanistan and the subsequent alienation of Pakistan through the policies pursued in Afghanistan.
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

  9. #24
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    What was wrong with US attacking Taliban?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Dec 07
    Location
    Michigan/Lahore
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by TopHatter View Post
    I doubt he can but it does look impressive to through out the vague yet grisly phrase "hundreds of thousands of dead civilians"
    The combined death toll in Afghanistan and Pakistan appears to be between 70,000 to 100,000, depending on the source. Do you find 'tens of thousands of dead civilians' to be less 'grisly' and more 'acceptable'?
    What Mihais actually said was "The AQ declared war on US.They attacked US interests worldwide and they admitted so." And this is demonstrably true years before 9/11.
    Nice try though.
    What Mihais said is irrelevant to the argument at hand - the US 'demands' were made on the basis of the 9/11 attacks, and the Taliban wanted to arrive at some negotiated settlement based on that.
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Dec 07
    Location
    Michigan/Lahore
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    What was wrong with US attacking Taliban?
    I have already pointed that out in previous posts and the first video covers a lot of ground on that subject.
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    The combined death toll in Afghanistan and Pakistan appears to be between 70,000 to 100,000, depending on the source. Do you find 'tens of thousands of dead civilians' to be less 'grisly' and more 'acceptable'?
    It's not the best thing to do, but since we talk in numbers here, can you source them? I mean how you got your numbers?
    Then can you divide them between countries. And finally can you allocate the responsible for the deaths of those civilians?

    What Mihais said is irrelevant to the argument at hand - the US 'demands' were made on the basis of the 9/11 attacks, and the Taliban wanted to arrive at some negotiated settlement based on that.
    And they miscalculated US stance, for which they paid the price.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  13. #28
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    I have already pointed that out in previous posts and the first video covers a lot of ground on that subject.
    It's kind of hard to follow your posting style. From time to time you drop something, be it a video or an article without commenting it, making us guess if you agree or disagree with the said piece.

    US saw OBL and his org responsible for attack on USA, decided to take action against said org and those who harbor them. What was wrong about it was the post intervention period. But other posters already said that, so wont repeat it.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  14. #29
    Global Moderator
    Military Professional
    Chogy's Avatar
    Join Date
    28 Apr 09
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,754
    Again, the Soviets tried 'unleashing the hounds' and they fared far worse. The theory behind 'nation building' is sound, in that criminal entities flourish in an environment of chaos and anarchy. The alternative to 'nation building' would have been to engage in the very process you reject - attempting negotiations with the Taliban and attempting to work through the existing regime to stabilize the country.
    It is sound only insofar as the nation being built actually desires (or at least accepts) what the "conquerors" offer in terms of a sociopolitical construct.

    If the USSR conquered Sweden, obliterating Sweden's infrastructure in the process, and then attempted to "rebuild" Sweden into yet another satellite State with a die-hard communist puppet at the helm, there'd be resistance.

    The Afghanis apparently do not want what is being offered. And most importantly, it is not the job of the military to build, and arguably, it is not their job to police, although the latter has been accomplished in post WW2 Axis nations. It is the job of the military to destroy, or threaten to do so.

    If the Afghanis want to shed themselves of the Taliban rule and eject foreign fighters, then let their young men stand and take up arms. These we'll supply. Otherwise, the mission should have been to gut AQ and the Taliban as necessary, and then simply exit stage left. A not so subtle warning about what happens if U.S. or Allies' assets are attacked in such a manner as they were on 9/11.

  15. #30
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
    Join Date
    12 Dec 07
    Location
    Michigan/Lahore
    Posts
    2,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    It's not the best thing to do, but since we talk in numbers here, can you source them? I mean how you got your numbers?
    Then can you divide them between countries. And finally can you allocate the responsible for the deaths of those civilians?
    Twenty-first Century Death Tolls
    And they miscalculated US stance, for which they paid the price.
    The point is that the Taliban paid a much lower price than that paid by others in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the costs continue to accumulate. There was an alternative to war and invasion that was not explored at the time, and it would appear that a lot of people have still not absorbed the lessons from the failures of the Afghan invasion, choosing instead to offer canards like 'we would have been fine if NATO had the freedom to kill more people with abandon' ...
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Ayn Randís Revenge
    By xinhui in forum International Economy
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 30 Oct 09,, 22:32
  2. Canadian CBC documentary about Afghanistan
    By yoda9999 in forum Operation Iraqi Freedom/Operation New Dawn
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05 Apr 08,, 00:21
  3. Documentary Film on Afghanistan 1988
    By Wiseman in forum Warfare in the Modern Age
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01 Jul 07,, 17:13
  4. Afghanistan SF documentary
    By giggs88 in forum Multimedia & Jukebox room
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 20 Nov 05,, 20:58
  5. Al-Qaeda calls for revenge
    By Ray in forum International Politics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09 May 05,, 20:02

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •