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Thread: German Defense Cooperations

  1. #1
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    German Defense Cooperations

    Germany has signed bilateral Declarations of Intent with Poland and the Netherlands in the last two days. These Declarations of Intent envision a close cooperation between the countries in defense matters.

    Solid things agreed upon, short-term:
    • Integration of the Dutch 11th Airmobile Brigade into the German Rapid Forces Division effective Jan 1st, 2014
    • Inclusion of Dutch exchange officers into the German PAC3-armed missile defense wing beginning 2014
    • development of a joint German/Dutch fire support unit, FOC agreed 2016-2018
    • transition of 1 GE/NL Corps into a binational JTF HQ L / J2C2
    • exchange of personnel between German and Dutch naval units; personnel exchange between German and Polish Navies; mutual embarkation of helicopter detachments and boarding/protection naval infantry between Germany and Poland
    • Joint training of German and Dutch Mechanized/Armoured forces, already ongoing; also expansion to fire support, predeployment, helicopter, certification exercises, SERE (with Belgium), para, naval training and damage control training (both also with Poland), CBRN and pretty much everything else
    • cooperation regarding support of shared weapon systems between Germany and Poland (RBS15 Mk3, MU90)


    Medium-term agreements:
    • development of a mission-oriented joint ground-based air- and missile defense wing, i.e. joint deployment of the two PAC3 wings of Germany and the Netherlands
    • establishment of a joint German/Dutch submarine command as well as a joint German/Polish "submarine operating authority"
    • establishment of joint tactical CIMIC units between Germany and the Netherlands
    • joint development and procurement of shipborne mission modules between Germany and Poland (for systems such as MRCS180)
    • bilateral support agreement between Germany and Netherlands regarding NH90 TTH (training, maintenance etc); "if" NH90 NFH procured by Germany possible trilateral treaty with Belgium


    Long-term Procurement:
    • joint development, procurement and manning of Joint Support Ships (amphibious assault ships) between Germany and Poland
    • joint procurement and operation of new oilers/tankers between Germany and Poland
    • joint replacement of MCM capabilities between Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium with common successor class
    • development of sea-based TBMD capability between Germany and the Netherlands based on SMART-L and existing AAW frigate classes
    • envisioned: possible shared common successor class for current German and Dutch submarine classes
    • envisioned: joint procurement of (possibly armed) MALE UAVs between Germany and Netherlands


    Feasibility Studies:
    • common logistic support between Germany and the Netherlands; logistic role specializations
    • shared officer/NCO training between Germany and the Netherlands
    • possible re-attachment of actual units to 1 GE/NL Corps


    Plus some more stuff. Mostly regarding regular meetings at staff/directorate level, mutual posting of exchange personnel to HQs, joint planning and preparation for deployments. And a vision to possibly in the future run German and Dutch services under a single shared command.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    [*]envisioned: joint procurement of (possibly armed) MALE UAVs between Germany and Netherlands
    I believe Germany is currently awaiting certification of the Eurohawk UAV for signals intelligence missions. Germany is currently using three Israeli Heron UAVs and will be testing the Israeli Eitan and the US Reaper for armed drones. However, I understand there is quite a bit of opposition in Parliament over the use of armed drones.

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    Eurohawk is as good as dead, the defense minister is probably going down over that affair. Same goes for Global Hawk, of which Germany wanted to buy five for NATO AGS. There's suggestions being tossed around mostly on the internet for possible manned successor projects, as the EADS-designed sensor suite can be adapted to other suitably sized platforms.

    Germany has a (long-running) requirement called SAATEG for 16 MALE drones, which will under current assumptions be either Reaper or Eitan if realized; three leased Heron are used as an intermediate solution in Afghanistan. Neither Eitan nor Reaper are being tested so far. The Netherlands used leased Aerostars in Afghanistan (lease cancelled with withdrawal), and has a requirement for 4 MALE drones to be introduced within the next 2-3 years.
    Last edited by kato; 29 May 13, at 20:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • Integration of the Dutch 11th Airmobile Brigade into the German Rapid Forces Division effective Jan 1st, 2014
    Done, 11 AMB is under OPCOM of DSK.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • Inclusion of Dutch exchange officers into the German PAC3-armed missile defense wing beginning 2014
    Relevant PAC-3 units of both countries remain deployed for OP Active Fence in Turkey.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • development of a joint German/Dutch fire support unit, FOC agreed 2016-2018
    Apparently as sort of early trials Germany is fielding an artillery unit in the RFP for NRF 2014 (reinforced battery size, supporting a battle group), with Dutch artillery men embedded. Although getting details on the current RFP is like pulling teeth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • establishment of a joint German/Dutch submarine command
    Going in this direction, the German and Dutch navies are apparently planning that the German submarine tender FGS Main will support the Dutch submarines as well while their own support ship HNLMS Mercuur will undergo a longer yard time in 2015.

    Participation in recent joint maneuvers - such as a combined ASW and ASuW exercise with a German and Dutch sub hunting each other down in late May attended by both Mercuur and Main - have served to evaluate this further. Although of course the duties of Mercuur (a torpedo recovery ship) and Main (a quite bigger full SSK squadron support ship) are somewhat different. Germany decommissioned its last dedicated torpedo recovery boats in the 90s.

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    Note USAREUR recently appointed a German general officer as chief of staff. Unprecedented in my memory-

    German Army General Appointed USAREUR Chief Of Staff-AP Aug. 1, 2014
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    Note USAREUR recently appointed a German general officer as chief of staff. Unprecedented in my memory-

    German Army General Appointed USAREUR Chief Of Staff-AP Aug. 1, 2014
    Steve,

    They may as well take over the whole enchilada. "USAREUR" is 2 brigades....a Stryker and an Airborne!
    “We had been hopelessly labouring to plough waste lands; to make nationality grow in a place full of the certainty of God… Among the tribes our creed could be only like the desert grass – a beautiful swift seeming of spring; which, after a day’s heat, fell dusty.”
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    Yeah, the US inquiry to get a German general in that post - and the Bundeswehr's intention to put Laubenthal in that post - has been public for about half a year now.

    The problem with the whole thing was foreign disclosure of classified US documents. The Bundeswehr, at least back in March, had the viewpoint that a Chief of Staff should have full disclosure of all documents the staff had access to. If one carefully reads the differences between the German MoD and USAREUR's press releases on this, it is likely this will be restricted and not to the extent demanded.

    According to the MoD, they and the US Army signed what amounts to a Statute of Forces Agreement for German staff officers in US Army positions two days ago, which probably (they ain't saying) includes regulations regarding this and was probably considered a mandatory prerequisite. The SOFA also affects German officers that act as either liaison or in a teaching position at various US Army institutions such as the War College or the Combined Arms Center; it does not affect the 1300 German Air Force soldiers permanently stationed in the USA.

    The last German officers embedded in US command structures with similar responsibility were probably the mutual joint subordination of II (GE/US) Corps and V (US/GE) Corps during the 90s.

    If you want to see a bit less positive reactions on the US side: German officer to serve as U.S. Army Europe's chief of staff | Army Times | armytimes.com
    Last edited by kato; 01 Aug 14, at 17:26.

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    I would never consider the possibility of a foreign officer serving as COS to the USAREUR CINC without that bridge long ago having been crossed. There's nothing I can imagine in CINC USAREUR's intel feed that would divulge sources or methods of which this gent wouldn't already be well aware.

    Laubenthal is coming off a Panzer Bde command, undoubtedly highly successful at that. He's young, armor qualified and there's something nasty happening again. The German Army is not sending a dimwit to this position. He might find himself center-stage in something really important but he's being cultivated by both sides for down the road.

    He'll be treated very well by us. I'm certain of that. Where he goes from there will be up to the Bundeswehr but I'd bet, short of stepping on his crank somehow, his professional trajectory is on the ascent.
    "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    Laubenthal is coming off a Panzer Bde command, undoubtedly highly successful at that.
    More importantly, Laubenthal commanded 12th Armoured Bde while it was deployed to Afghanistan in the last rotation, becoming CoS of ISAF RC North for mid-2013 to mid-2014.

    Politically, the appointment is not received all that well in Germany, both due to the recent NSA/CIA stuff and more importantly, because as CoS of USAREUR Laubenthal will oversee planned "training" deployments to Ukraine which quite a couple German political groups are opposed to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • Integration of the Dutch 11th Airmobile Brigade into the German Rapid Forces Division effective Jan 1st, 2014
    • [...]
    • Joint training of German and Dutch Mechanized/Armoured forces, already ongoing; also expansion to fire support, predeployment, helicopter, certification exercises, SERE (with Belgium), para, naval training and damage control training (both also with Poland), CBRN and pretty much everything else
    Current plans following this successful integration are for the Dutch 43rd Mechanized Brigade to be integrated into the German 1st Armoured Division, according to correspondence between the German Inspector General of the Army and members of the Defense Committee of the parliament. This would mean that half the Dutch ground forces - everything save for a light infantry brigade, 13th Mot Bde, and the Dutch marines - would be integrated in the German Army.

    The integration runs under the callsign "Project Griffin", combining the German Eagle and the Dutch Lion.

    According to the Inspector General, "similar projects" are envisioned with the Polish Army, with a possible similar exchange of units having been agreed with his Polish counterparts. With the integration of 43rd (NL) Mech Bde, the 1st Armoured Division would have one bde unit spare that could be used for such purposes. Similar to the transformation of 1 GE/NL Corps, Multinational Corps Northeast in cooperation with Poland will be "strengthened" (agreed upon), and cooperation in officer training has been agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • development of a joint German/Dutch fire support unit, FOC agreed 2016-2018
    • [...]
    • shared officer/NCO training between Germany and the Netherlands
    The German Artillery School at Idar-Oberstein will become host to a multinational integrative "tactical fire support" training unit, currently planned for German, Dutch and Belgian artillery men; Austria and France have "shown interest" in participating as well, both being close cooperation partners of Germany.

    Austria and Germany cooperate mostly regarding mountain warfare. The Austrian 6th Light Infantry Brigade and the German 23rd Mountain Brigade cooperate in training, integrating battalions and companies into each other for maneuvers. Austrian infantry companies have been continuously integrated into the German-fielded KFOR OTHF ORF reinforcement battalion since 2008.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • joint development, procurement and manning of Joint Support Ships (amphibious assault ships) between Germany and Poland
    Members of the Defense Committee have voiced concern about the cost and generall the level of ambition of this. There's a section among them that would like to make the existing Dutch systems and units the core component of a joint amphibious capability, i.e. in this regard a Dutch-led unit with German contribution.
    This is of course complicated a bit since the Dutch contribute part of this capability to the British (Royal Marines) 3rd Commando Brigade.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • Integration of the Dutch 11th Airmobile Brigade into the German Rapid Forces Division effective Jan 1st, 2014
    • [...]
    • Joint training of German and Dutch Mechanized/Armoured forces, already ongoing; also expansion to fire support, predeployment, helicopter, certification exercises, SERE (with Belgium), para, naval training and damage control training (both also with Poland), CBRN and pretty much everything else
    Current plans following this successful integration are for the Dutch 43rd Mechanized Brigade to be integrated into the German 1st Armoured Division, according to correspondence between the German Inspector General of the Army and members of the Defense Committee of the parliament. This would mean that half the Dutch ground forces - everything save for 13th Mot Inf Bde, and the Dutch marines - would be integrated in the German Army. 13th Mot Inf Bde is apparently envisioned for cooperation with Belgium by the Dutch, the Dutch Marines contribute to the British 3rd Cdo Bde.

    The overall integration runs under the callsign "Project Griffin", combining the German Eagle and the Dutch Lion.

    According to the Inspector General, "similar projects" are envisioned with the Polish Army, with a possible similar exchange of units having been agreed with his Polish counterparts. With the integration of 43rd (NL) Mech Bde, the 1st Armoured Division would have one bde unit spare that could be used for such purposes. Similar to the transformation of 1 GE/NL Corps, Multinational Corps Northeast in cooperation with Poland will be "strengthened" (agreed upon), and cooperation in officer training has been agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • development of a joint German/Dutch fire support unit, FOC agreed 2016-2018
    • [...]
    • shared officer/NCO training between Germany and the Netherlands
    The German Artillery School at Idar-Oberstein will become host to a multinational integrative "tactical fire support" training unit, currently planned for German, Dutch and Belgian artillery men; Austria and France have "shown interest" in participating as well, both being close cooperation partners of Germany.

    Austria and Germany cooperate mostly regarding mountain warfare. The Austrian 6th Light Infantry Brigade and the German 23rd Mountain Brigade cooperate in training, integrating battalions and companies into each other for maneuvers. Austrian infantry companies have been continuously integrated into the German-fielded KFOR OTHF ORF reinforcement battalion since 2008.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • joint development, procurement and manning of Joint Support Ships (amphibious assault ships) between Germany and Poland
    Members of the Defense Committee have voiced concern about the cost and in general the level of ambition of this. There's a section among them that would like to make the existing Dutch systems and units the core component of a joint amphibious capability, i.e. in this regard a Dutch-led unit with German contribution.
    This is of course complicated a bit since the Dutch contribute part of this capability to the British (Royal Marines) 3rd Commando Brigade.
    Last edited by kato; 12 Aug 14, at 07:14.

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    The Rapid Forces Division will receive a nominal joint staff element composed of officers of both countries btw, including a second deputy division commander post to be manned by a Dutch officer. This deputy commander is planned to be supported by only 12 other Dutch soldiers in the division command, so about only halfway representative considering the Dutch field about 20% of the division's manpower*.

    * The division, aside from the Dutch brigade with 2100 men, a German brigade with about 3000 men and the German Special Forces Command with another 1100, also includes about 5000 further German soldiers in three aviation regiments.
    Last edited by kato; 12 Aug 14, at 20:36.

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    Perhaps a bit of an oddball thing, but interesting regarding integration of / cooperation with the Dutch Armed Forces:

    The German Ministry of Defense is currently beginning the process of defining the 2016 White Book, superseding the 2006 version. The White Book defines the broad lines of our national defense policy and how the Bundeswehr addresses aspects of it. As part of this process the official starter conference will be held next week where various officials will discuss security politics at four parallel discussion panels - "perspectives of security and defense policy", "perspectives of partnerships and alliances", "perspectives of the national scope of action" and "perspectives of the Bundeswehr".

    One of these panels will have as attendees discussing policy with each other:
    - Wolfgang Hellmich, SPD, designated next head of the parliamentary defense committee
    - Henning Otte, CDU, defense policy spokesman for his party
    - Lieutenant General Heinrich Brauß, NATO Assistant Secretary General for Defence Policy and Planning
    - General Tom Middendorp, Dutch Chief of Defense

    Now, what's odd about that lineup?

    One thing: that that's not the lineup for the second of the above panels, on defense partnerships. It's for the last of the above.
    Last edited by kato; 14 Feb 15, at 16:04.

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    Here's the Dutch perspective on Project Griffin (7 pages, pretty much just a summary):
    http://www.militairespectator.nl/sit...Bundeswehr.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Current plans following this successful integration are for the Dutch 43rd Mechanized Brigade to be integrated into the German 1st Armoured Division, according to correspondence between the German Inspector General of the Army and members of the Defense Committee of the parliament.
    The first "work meeting" between the 1st (GE) Div and 43rd (NL) Mechanized Bde took place only one month after the above post.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    The German Artillery School at Idar-Oberstein will become host to a multinational integrative "tactical fire support" training unit, currently planned for German, Dutch and Belgian artillery men; Austria and France have "shown interest" in participating as well, both being close cooperation partners of Germany.
    This 72-page "brochure" for the International Artillery Symposium at that school (Oct 2014) might be of interest to some of our artillery men here.
    It also mentions on the side that there are German students in the Fire Support Officer training course at their Dutch counterpart as well.

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