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Thread: German Defense Cooperations

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    From the roadmap of the Seebataillon integration plans, it seems likely there will be German troops embarking on the Dutch JSS by late April which could then stay onboard during operational training in British waters.
    There's currently a platoon of the Seebataillon deployed onboard Dutch LPD Johan de Witt in the US-led NATO exercise BALTOPS which focuses on amphibious operations*. This is due to Karel Doorman - originally earmarked for the exercise - suffering damage to one of its electric drive motors to an extent that it needs to be replaced entirely.

    * German components for BALTOPS 2016 also include a F124, an AOR, three FACs, two MCMV, two tenders and a MPA. Neither Germany nor the Netherlands are sending combat aircraft beyond naval warfare units, despite US Sixth Fleet photos showing some above the Baltic Sea and sorting them with BALTOPS pictures.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • establishment of a joint German/Dutch submarine command as well as a joint German/Polish "submarine operating authority"
    The bolded part is being realized now, with something to that effect signed by the German and Polish navy inspector generals (... admirals). The step is seen in Germany - and the German Navy - as somewhat surprising and forward given nothing else of the 2013 German-Polish MoU has been realized in light of the anti-German stance of recent Polish top politicians.

    The advantage for the Polish is apparently that they're lacking (landside) submarine communications systems and can with the new command use the German ones. As in VLF/LF transmitters and satcom. There ain't really much of an advantage for Germany in it, except perhaps by deference industry politics as Poland is looking for new subs; the replacements for their Type 207 will be jointly procured with Norway (where the trials of German-built subs are held anyway) and possibly the Netherlands (known general coop with Germany) and are thus prime hunting grounds for German shipyards.

    The new command will have operational authority over 11 diesel attack submarines (four Type 212A Batch 1, four Type 207, two Type 212A Batch 2 and one 877E Kilo) and will mostly exist on paper as a joint unit - the Polish Navy will second a grand total of two liaison officers to the German Navy HQ for this purpose.
    Last edited by kato; 28 Jun 16, at 18:52.

  3. #33
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    Germany is holding its first joint exercise with the PLA on PRC soil, a two-week medical exercise:

    http://eng.mod.gov.cn/DefenseNews/20...nt_4750271.htm
    (and yes, the picture is photoshopped)

    The exercise is part of a more recent larger-scale exchange between Bw and PLA medical forces that - at least with the Inspector of the Medical Forces (Bw) and to some extent the Inspector of the Medical Force (PLA) - is envisioned to faciliate possible mutual support structures on joint missions. Previously only loose contact and some liaison training aspects existed, albeit those since the late 70s.

    A similar start to possible cooperation also took place between the navies in late August, with the Inspector of the Navy (Bw) visiting his counterpart in Beijing and some PLAN ships incl. the Chinese aircraft carrier; the Type 054A frigate Xiangtan had previously visited Germany in June on what was pretty much her maiden cruise. In this exchange the interest seems to be more on the Chinese side though, proposing "pragmatic cooperation" e.g. for the deployments of both countries in the Gulf of Aden and possible future joint exercises.

  4. #34
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    The Air Force wants to play too:

    Project Apollo envisions placing the German 61st Air Defense Group under the command of the Dutch Army. The plan has recently again been mentioned in a public speech by Inspector of the Airforce Gen. Müller, with a possible implementation during 2017. Project Apollo was signed as a cooperation treaty between the German Deputy Commander of the Air Force Troop Command and the Dutch Deputy Inspector of the Army in February this year; the integration of the German under the Dutch unit is part of this treaty, in addition Germany will contribute a mobile HQ system for the Dutch Air Defense Forces. The treaty further formalized extant joint training of Patriot operating units as well.

    The 61st Air Defense Group is sort of an oddball in the German Air Force, grouping together V/SHORAD assets that the Air Force took over from the Army during restructuring - a platoon with ten Ozelot vehicles (10 Wiesels with quad Stinger launchers) and two platoons with a Mantis stationary CRAM gun system (4 guns) each. The idea behind the cooperation is to group this oddball battery together with the Dutch 13th Air Defense Battery, which has a not that dissimilar layout - a platoon equipped with NASAMS 2 SHORAD missiles (6 firing units iirc) and two platoons with Fennek SWP (8 Fennek with quad Stinger launchers each); both units also integrate similar mobile radar systems for low altitude surveillance.
    Last edited by kato; 21 Nov 16, at 06:05.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2 View Post
    Note USAREUR recently appointed a German general officer as chief of staff. Unprecedented in my memory-

    German Army General Appointed USAREUR Chief Of Staff-AP Aug. 1, 2014
    BG Laubenthal is being replaced after more than two years in that post. His replacement as CoS USAREUR will be another German - BG Kai Ronald Rohrschneider, currently commander of the 21st Armoured Brigade.

    Rohrschneider as a Colonel was commander of PRT Kunduz during 2009 to 2010, replacing somewhat notable Colonel Klein of Kunduz airstrike fame. In the fighting following that he developed a tendency to lead troops from the front using improvised mobile command posts. His troops saw almost daily firefights at the time.
    He notably holds the Einsatzmedaille Gefecht himself, a medal awarded by the Bundeswehr for actively taking part in a firefight since 2010. Over the last six years about 6,000 German soldiers got this award, he's to my knowledge one of extremely few - possibly the only one - at general rank.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • German naval infantry battalion will be integrated in Dutch Royal Marines around 2019
    • Karel Doorman will be available for German use in return
    Belgium is now joining that cooperation in a bilateral Dutch-Belgian treaty. The Belgian Military will contribute crew components to Karel Doorman, either a medical unit or aircrew with helicopters. In addition two Belgian infantry companies will be trained up by the Dutch Marines for amphibious operations in a joint context from Dutch LPDs, likely one company each from 3rd Paratroop Bn and 2nd Commando Bn (both of which nominally have amphibious warfare as part of their portfolio). In return the Dutch Marines get to use the Belgian-Dutch joint paratrooper school drawing specifically on experience of Belgian commando units.

    The Dutch Ministry of Defence sees the treaty with Belgium for the above in direct context with the bilateral treaty with Germany and is interested in "bringing more countries" into the fold with them as a lead nation for amphibious warfare.

  7. #37
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    Project Apollo goes a step further:

    The German Air Force is now planning to fully integrate its Patriot units with the Dutch Air Defence Command. All of them. The joint Air Defence Command will operate 17 Patriot batteries (14 German, 3 Dutch) incl. two for training. It will be placed under Dutch command sometime before 2018.

    In addition both countries are planning a joint "Air & Missile Defence Academy" which will be created sometime after 2018.

  8. #38
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    Perhaps interesting in context:

    Case studies on Defence Cooperation Models by the Clingendael Institute, a Dutch think tank with geopolitics and military focus.

    Studies Eurocorps, the Franco-German Brigade, EATC, BENESAM, and Baltic Air Policing. Germany is involved in all except BENESAM (the merger of Dutch and Belgian navies).

  9. #39
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    The German and Dutch defense ministers are going pretty buddy-buddy right now at Davos, claiming a future German-Dutch lead role in NATO. Dutch defense minister earned some laughs with her "the two of us" answer to "who do you see leading NATO" at first, German defense minister then told them they're serious.

  10. #40
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    Germany and Norway are joining up for submarines:

    After a comprehensive evaluation process, The Norwegian Government decided on Germany as strategic partner for new submarines. The partnership is based on a German-Norwegian common purchase and lifetime management of identical, new submarines.

    The decision involves a broad and long-term Navy-to-Navy cooperation encompassing submarines and other naval capabilities. The cooperation will include a purchase of identical submarines and cooperation on training, exercises, spare parts, maintenance and lifetime management of the new submarines. The submarines will be based on the 212-design already in service in Germany and Italy. The cooperation also includes cooperation between Norwegian and German industry.
    Norway will procure four of the new subs (to replace six current), Germany will procure two (rounding out inventory to eight subs).

  11. #41
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    German paper FAZ reports that there are plans for:

    • the Czech Republic to subordinate the 4th Rapid Forces Brigade under the German 10th Armoured Division
    • Romania to subordinate the 81st Mechanized Brigade under the German Rapid Forces Division


    For both cases the integration of Dutch units is seen as the preferred integration model. Plans to integrate a Czech unit were already made in 2015 - by the Czechs - but postponed by Germany; back then it was about the 7th Mechanized Brigade (the 4th makes more sense though as it is stationed in the west of the country, towards the German border).

    Supposedly MoUs to that effect will be signed between Germany, the Czech Republic and Romania at a NATO meeting in Brussels next wednesday.

    During the same meeting a MoU will be signed for Germany to contribute to the future joint Dutch-Luxembourgian AAR tanker fleet.
    Last edited by kato; 11 Feb 17, at 07:57.

  12. #42
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    Germany and France are setting up a joint air transport squadron for special forces support; France is buying 2 C-130J and 2 KC-130J for this squadron with delivery by 2019, Germany will buy another 4-6 C-130J by 2021.

    The squadron will be stationed in France and train and maintain its crews and aircraft jointly for efficiency reasons. The transport aircraft of the squadron are intended for insertion, supply and evacuation missions in theaters with extremely bad infrastructure, mostly encountered in African deployments; the two tankers are intended for in-flight refueling of French SOF helicopters.

    The squadron will likely operationally replace ET 3/61 at Orleans-Bricy, supplanting ET 2/61 at the same base. Both squadrons currently use mostly C-130H-30 and C-130H along with some C-160 (that will be replaced by the new aircraft) and a few DHC-6.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    During the same meeting a MoU will be signed for Germany to contribute to the future joint Dutch-Luxembourgian AAR tanker fleet.
    The joint fleet consisting of eight A330 MRTT (read: same that EADS tried to sell the USAF as KC-45) will be set up at the European Air Transport Command* HQ at Eindhoven, with a small number being stationed at Cologne. Germany will buy 5,500 flight hours within this joint unit to fully replace the current fleet of four A310 MRTT as well as a A310 in passenger version; other users are Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Norway (Norway and Belgium also newly joined). Most of the aircraft will be kept in tanker or transport configuration, with one - at Cologne - configured for MedEvac.

    The current German A310 fleet, rebuilt aircraft taken over from a state airline of East Germany 25 years ago, would have had to have been replaced by 2020 anyway. While we're nominally buying the same number of flight hours that the A310s are flown for now the A330 MRTT has a roughly 40% higher payload capacity in any configuration.


    * EATC is a joint command of seven nations (Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg) that coordinates air transport and air-to-air refuelling needs between the air fleets of these nations, comparable to USAF's Air Mobility Command. Its main focus is to pool currently around 230 aircraft of the member nations, making the full fleet available for tapping by any of its members. In the future EATC will have operational command over at least 112 A400M and 20 A330 MRTT as reconfigurable multi-role aircraft and a few dozen other dedicated transport or tanker aircraft. Command of EATC alternates between Germany and France.
    Last edited by kato; 16 Feb 17, at 20:09.

  14. #44
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    (Poland)
    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    • Cooperation at brigade level: mutual subordination of battalion-level units
    This has now been defined as the 411th (GE) Mechanized Infantry Batallion being transferred to the 34th (PL) Armored Cavalry Brigade and the 1st (PL) Armored Battalion in turn being transferred to the 41st (GE) Mechanized Brigade. These transfers however will only occur for exercises and is termed "Cross Attachment". For a warm-up a current exercise sees a full brigade deployment of 41st Mechanized Brigade to the Bergen training area being joined by a Polish tank company.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    Germany and France are setting up a joint air transport squadron for special forces support; France is buying 2 C-130J and 2 KC-130J for this squadron with delivery by 2019, Germany will buy another 4-6 C-130J by 2021.
    German component decided on : 3 C-130J and 3 KC-130J; French component enlarged to 4 C-130J and 2 KC-130J. Germany will also invest some 110 million euro into Evreux, the French base the squadron will be stationed at.

    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    During the same meeting a MoU will be signed for Germany to contribute to the future joint Dutch-Luxembourgian AAR tanker fleet.
    German parliament will ratify accession to the multilateral treaty for this around June.

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