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  • Kosovo Serbs vow to resist deal done in Brussels

    I dont get why the Serbian enclaves in Kosovo's north that are contiguous with Serbia arent just merged back into it. Forcing Serbs to live under break-away Albanian rule makes absolutely no sense.

    BBC News - Feeling betrayed in north Kosovo

  • #2
    Originally posted by 1980s View Post
    I dont get why the Serbian enclaves in Kosovo's north that are contiguous with Serbia arent just merged back into it. Forcing Serbs to live under break-away Albanian rule makes absolutely no sense.

    BBC News - Feeling betrayed in north Kosovo
    Borders cannot be seen to move.

    Comment


    • #3
      It wont end well, Serbs are not known for taking things laying down, especially with their dealings with Albanians. Belgrade today may consider entry into the EU as an important objective but Im sure that on a grassroots level the Serbian people care far more for their territorial integrity.

      Personally NATO should have done nothing in Albania. I can understand getting involved in the Serb/Croatian conflict but they should have allowed the Serbs to crush the KLA uprising in a way that Serbs (and Russians) only know how. It was sickening watching NATO supporting a barbarous Islamic militia in its aim to rip out the belly of the Serbian nation. The Serbs can be assholes, no doubt about that but supporting the KLA was an exercise in biting off your nose to spite your face.
      The best part of repentance is the sin

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      • #4
        In all fairness, given the military potential, Serbs were given more then enough time. And they failed. Bombing came as a cherry on the top for them. And now they have to eat the cake as well.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

        Comment


        • #5
          By that theory NATO in Afghanistan and formerly in Iraq were fairing even worse. Short of genocide it takes time to defeat an insurgency. The world would be willing to look away for a few incidents but going Mongol on the enemy doesn't fly any more, especially in Europe
          The best part of repentance is the sin

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          • #6
            Originally posted by chakos View Post
            It wont end well, Serbs are not known for taking things laying down, especially with their dealings with Albanians. Belgrade today may consider entry into the EU as an important objective but Im sure that on a grassroots level the Serbian people care far more for their territorial integrity.

            Personally NATO should have done nothing in Albania. I can understand getting involved in the Serb/Croatian conflict but they should have allowed the Serbs to crush the KLA uprising in a way that Serbs (and Russians) only know how. It was sickening watching NATO supporting a barbarous Islamic militia in its aim to rip out the belly of the Serbian nation. The Serbs can be assholes, no doubt about that but supporting the KLA was an exercise in biting off your nose to spite your face.
            Serbs cashed in all their 'don't get hammered by the civilized world when you liquidate a few villages & stampede thousands of refugees' chits in Bosnia. When the OSCE began to report increasing & deliberate killing of civilians and the number of refugees hiding in the forests in the face of an approaching winter began to hit the high tens of thousands the Serbs were fcuked. Everybody had seen this before & it ended in big open pits full of bodies. Kosovo Serbs were Slobodan's 'shock troops' in the series of events that led to the breakdown of Yugoslavia & the start of the Yugoslav Wars. They got the insurgency they deserved.

            Personally I'd be happy to shave off the northern part of Kosovo, give it to Serbia & be done with it. No regrets about taking Kosovo off them, however. 'Assholes' I can deal with. What happened in Bosnia passed 'asshole' in the first month. They were just lucky NATO give Belgrade the 'Sarajevo' treatment.
            sigpic

            Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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            • #7
              Originally posted by chakos View Post
              By that theory NATO in Afghanistan and formerly in Iraq were fairing even worse. Short of genocide it takes time to defeat an insurgency. The world would be willing to look away for a few incidents but going Mongol on the enemy doesn't fly any more, especially in Europe
              'Going Mongol' doesn't always work either. Chechens got hammered by the Russians about once every generation or so by the Russians. Stalin offed about 50% of the population in the 40s & left the remainder on the far side of the Caspian sea. less than 50 years later they were at it again.
              sigpic

              Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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              • #8
                Originally posted by chakos View Post
                By that theory NATO in Afghanistan and formerly in Iraq were fairing even worse. Short of genocide it takes time to defeat an insurgency. The world would be willing to look away for a few incidents but going Mongol on the enemy doesn't fly any more, especially in Europe
                How much time it took NATO to militarily defeat Afghanistan or Iraq?

                I don't know how deep you are familiar with Kosovo's issue, but it was openly going on since late 70's, early 80s.
                There were protest, police action, increased police presence, raids, more protest...
                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                  Serbs cashed in all their 'don't get hammered by the civilized world when you liquidate a few villages & stampede thousands of refugees' chits in Bosnia.
                  You don't mean these:



                  Or these:


                  Right?

                  Thing is noone ever wanted to see those as the sides were pretty much already taken. Therefore, only the evil side was bombed.

                  When the OSCE began to report increasing & deliberate killing of civilians and the number of refugees hiding in the forests in the an to hit the high tens of thousands the Serbs were fcuked.
                  Hey, OSCE said it. It must be it.

                  Everybody had seen this before & it ended in big open pits full of bodies. Kosovo Serbs were Slobodan's 'shock troops' in the series of events that led to the breakdown of Yugoslavia & the start of the Yugoslav Wars. They got the insurgency they deserved.
                  I miss something in your remarks here. Kosovo was last in the chain of events that was a breakdown of Yugoslavia. Actually it was the very end of the Yugo wars, if you exclude the staged conflict we had here in 2001.

                  Personally I'd be happy to shave off the northern part of Kosovo, give it to Serbia & be done with it. No regrets about taking Kosovo off them, however. 'Assholes' I can deal with. What happened in Bosnia passed 'asshole' in the first month. They were just lucky NATO give Belgrade the 'Sarajevo' treatment.
                  Shaving off Northern Kosovo and "giving it" it whomever makes a weird precedence in a volatile region like ours. The fears are it will start a never ending chain of events - Republika Srpska, NorthWest Macedonia, Ossetia, Catalonia...
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                  No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                  To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Doktor View Post
                    Thing is noone ever wanted to see those as the sides were pretty much already taken. Therefore, only the evil side was bombed.
                    After Bosnia Serbs were the 'bad guys'. Was that 100% fair? not at all. Was Europe & the US going to risk Belgrade repeating what happened in Bosnia? Nope. Anyone who can make Croats look good needed to re-think their PR strategy. That's why there was barely a murmur when Krajina got 'ethnically cleansed'.

                    Hey, OSCE said it. It must be it.
                    Take it up with them.

                    I miss something in your remarks here. Kosovo was last in the chain of events that was a breakdown of Yugoslavia. Actually it was the very end of the Yugo wars, if you exclude the staged conflict we had here in 2001.
                    Yes you did Doc. I'm afraid I don't have a reference to hand, but it is my strong recollection that after the Kosovo crisis that launched Milosevic's career he employed a group of Kosovo Serbs to help organize the rallies in Vojvodina and Montenegro in particular that led to the 'anti-bureaucratic revolution'. They basically bounced around Yugoslavia helping to rally Serbs to the cause while telling their tales of Albanian savagery etc. Somewhere in my fuzzy memory is something telling me that the refusal of Croatia to let this group organize rallies there was one of the many flash points of the period. Sadly I can picture the stocky guy with the big moustache who led the Kosovars in question, but can't recall his name (yeah, I know, stocky guy with mo in 80s Yugoslavia - how many could ther have been ). Anyways, they were up to their necks in the events that let to the great unpleasantness.

                    Shaving off Northern Kosovo and "giving it" it whomever makes a weird precedence in a volatile region like ours. The fears are it will start a never ending chain of events - Republika Srpska, NorthWest Macedonia, Ossetia, Catalonia...
                    Didn't say it was going to happen, just that it made a certain sort of sense. I can see the other side. Nobody wants to start setting precedents they can't walk away from.:)
                    sigpic

                    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                    • #11
                      I remember how I watched the bombings on TV in '99, both on the local news and western channels - the disparity in what they reported was huge, basically the Serbs were portrayed as Lucifer's spawn on earth , ethnic cleansing everything, while not a pep was said about what the Albanians did or wanted to do.

                      @ Bigfella, the "civilized world" was the first to pick sides in the Balkans (like they always do), the morality angle is hypocritical. They should just stop butting in, nothing good will ever come out of it - look at what Kosovo is..

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                        Take it up with them.
                        Hey, my godfather works with OSCE!


                        Yes you did Doc. I'm afraid I don't have a reference to hand, but it is my strong recollection that after the Kosovo crisis that launched Milosevic's career he employed a group of Kosovo Serbs to help organize the rallies in Vojvodina and Montenegro in particular that led to the 'anti-bureaucratic revolution'. They basically bounced around Yugoslavia helping to rally Serbs to the cause while telling their tales of Albanian savagery etc. Somewhere in my fuzzy memory is something telling me that the refusal of Croatia to let this group organize rallies there was one of the many flash points of the period. Sadly I can picture the stocky guy with the big moustache who led the Kosovars in question, but can't recall his name (yeah, I know, stocky guy with mo in 80s Yugoslavia - how many could ther have been ). Anyways, they were up to their necks in the events that let to the great unpleasantness.
                        Gazimestan speech

                        Anti-bureaucratic revolution

                        Momir Bulatovic

                        ???


                        Tho, things were rolling long before.

                        Didn't say it was going to happen, just that it made a certain sort of sense. I can see the other side. Nobody wants to start setting precedents they can't walk away from.:)
                        Path to hell, good intentions... something with your own words :)
                        Last edited by Doktor; 21 May 13,, 13:43. Reason: adding links
                        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good evening my good Doktor :)

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                          • #14
                            Long time, buddy. Hope everything is well.
                            No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                            To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Because if that happens, Serbia loses Presevo valley and with it the southern corridor, triggering the uprisings in Macedonia and Montenegro and again we will be labeled as bad guys. Situation is far more complicated than it seems to be...
                              Last edited by Versus; 24 May 13,, 07:19.

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