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  • #46
    Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
    Well, isn't that like worrying about fluoridated water being a cover story for the reptoid-Illuminati to insert mind controlling nanbots into the precious bodily fluids of Americans?

    Both might be remotely possible, but sane people won't pay it any attention.
    In 1923, two Serbian film makers made the comedy called "Kachak's in Belgrade",(kachak is the name for the Albanian rebel in Kosovo during the 1920 and they are the prequel of KLA). The move was comedy but in reality Serbia was losing 100 police officers a year in Kosovo due to Albanian attacks, from 1920 to 1941. I wonder how they would feel now, after their beloved Belgrade was bombed, not directly by the KLA but by its allies. These things are slow crawlers Skywatcher.

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    • #47
      Serbs in Kosovo have two options really. One is to be integrated as a second rate beings in Kosovo's society and the other is to move to Serbia. I would opt for the second choice, and than go with my plan,churches and other cultural sites that are not burned to the ground, transferred to the UNESCO protection, 20 meter high wall around Kosovo border armed with 30 mm auto cannons and sensors, and behind it 1000 Doras along the border.

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      • #48
        How is Serbian economy going to cope with this infrastructural challenge?
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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        • #49
          It must find the way, last time when we lost Kosovo, we spent 500 years under the sharia law that almost wiped us out. Since we lost it again, lets not lose Serbia again. One Dora was around 7 million rechmarks, it is still cheaper than today's MBT and with upgraded fire control and ammunition and new alloys and things, it can be pretty effective. Appropriate IADS and airforce goes without saying.
          Last edited by Versus; 28 May 13,, 11:39.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Versus View Post
            Serbs in Kosovo have two options really. One is to be integrated as a second rate beings in Kosovo's society and the other is to move to Serbia.
            Damned hard to choose between losing everything all at once ... or losing everything slowly.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              It's their homes. What would you do if tomorrow, some Japanese told you to get out and leave New Japan?
              O of E with respect the Kosovo Serbs haven't been told to "get out" or anything like that. What they have been denied is formal political union with Serbia proper - and they have been denied this option not just by external forces (the EU) but by the current Serbian government as well! So as stated previously their options are limited and one thing they certainly can't do is go it alone because they're simply to small to exist as a viable, independent economic entity.

              As for the "Japan bit" if I was the inhabitant of a small island with a few thousand impoverished inhabitants and a powerful neighbor like Japan told me my "country" was going to be merged with them politically, well in the absence of anyone one else equally powerful offering to intervene then I can either stay or go. Cue - music - "I think I turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese I really think so...."

              Life isn't about what you might want it's about what you can get.
              If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Monash View Post
                O of E with respect the Kosovo Serbs haven't been told to "get out" or anything like that.
                Not by Pristina but certainly by the ethnic Albanian gangs/warlords/mafia.

                Originally posted by Monash View Post
                As for the "Japan bit" if I was the inhabitant of a small island with a few thousand impoverished inhabitants and a powerful neighbor like Japan told me my "country" was going to be merged with them politically, well in the absence of anyone one else equally powerful offering to intervene then I can either stay or go. Cue - music - "I think I turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese I really think so...."

                Life isn't about what you might want it's about what you can get.
                The thought of at least putting a fight would certainly enter your mind.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Versus View Post
                  In 1923, two Serbian film makers made the comedy called "Kachak's in Belgrade",(kachak is the name for the Albanian rebel in Kosovo during the 1920 and they are the prequel of KLA). The move was comedy but in reality Serbia was losing 100 police officers a year in Kosovo due to Albanian attacks, from 1920 to 1941. I wonder how they would feel now, after their beloved Belgrade was bombed, not directly by the KLA but by its allies. These things are slow crawlers Skywatcher.
                  Umm, so essentially you're saying that if a lunatic or comedian makes a prediction, we should take it seriously?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                    Umm, so essentially you're saying that if a lunatic or comedian makes a prediction, we should take it seriously?
                    Politicians do the same and you believe them?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Skywatcher View Post
                      Umm, so essentially you're saying that if a lunatic or comedian makes a prediction, we should take it seriously?
                      Absolutely. Sanity is not a well defined thing...:) Which reminds me, it is time to analyze one very important subject at the autopsy thread which I will perform over the weekends and it is called: Battlesheeps-The birth of Serbian liberal class.
                      Last edited by Versus; 28 May 13,, 18:09.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by snapper View Post
                        Politicians do the same and you believe them?
                        Building from his logic, then the CIA, FBI and NYPD should drop everything Al Qaeda related and start planning for an invasion of New York City by the Longbow Corps of the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Monash View Post
                          O of E with respect the Kosovo Serbs haven't been told to "get out" or anything like that. What they have been denied is formal political union with Serbia proper - and they have been denied this option not just by external forces (the EU) but by the current Serbian government as well! So as stated previously their options are limited and one thing they certainly can't do is go it alone because they're simply to small to exist as a viable, independent economic entity.

                          As for the "Japan bit" if I was the inhabitant of a small island with a few thousand impoverished inhabitants and a powerful neighbor like Japan told me my "country" was going to be merged with them politically, well in the absence of anyone one else equally powerful offering to intervene then I can either stay or go. Cue - music - "I think I turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese I really think so...."

                          Life isn't about what you might want it's about what you can get.
                          Serbian government had to deny them that option because of the pressure, imposed by the Eu and US. So it is not, actually a free choice type of decision making or product of free will. The goal of the Albanians is to regain control over the territory that they consider to be theirs, aka the territory they took during the Ottoman Empire and that territory is vastly bigger than Kosovo and Albania combined. On that territory they want to establish total and absolute dominance, aka the setting that was, during the Ottoman Empire where they rule supreme and when all other cultures were wiped out. This is not an religious issue, yet it is racial/national issue and they will use every mean possible to achieve that and they will never stop until their goal is reached. They used Ottomans to spread and they accepted Islam,when the Ottoman rule ceased to exist and the First World war came, they accepted Austro-Hungarian and Bulgarian rule to achieve the same thing, when the Second World war came, they did the same thing, during the Communism they did the same thing and under the NATO/US/Eu umbrella they are doing the same thing. Heck if the Borg occupy the Earth, they would join them and do the same thing. They will use any dominant power in the world to their benefit. That is why they call themselves eagles, the foreign power is just the wind that pushes the eagle to fly. The winds might change, but the eagle always stays the eagle and does what eagle does.

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                          • #58
                            Ok, enough is enough, my 2 cents on true reasons for NATO's involvement in the Balkans. This one will be short (relatively).

                            With the collapse of the Soviet Union the US power grew rapidly until it evolved into something that can be described as malevolent or benevolent (depending on choices), almost hysterical rush for world domination, aka globalization.The celebration party, over the dead communism corpse was lush. US shed its industrial capacity,bankers loosen the belt and the free money was raining everywhere. Yay we are all going to be managers, live in a suite, drive a Bentley and have fashion models as girlfriends and wives. Life was good in the 90'es and early 2000'es.

                            The architect of this program is, of course, the King Zbiggy, who's ideas of 19th century imperial understanding of the world, found the fertile ground in the hearts and minds of the ruling elites in the US causing slight orgasmic sensations in their bodies. King Zbiggy was obsessed with the destruction of Soviet Union and he taught the generations of US elites how super exceptional they are and how they are destined to rule the planet and the elites gobbled on that. He was in position to do that, because he was well established figure in both academia and politics circles, since during the cold war, this was the hot stuff and king Zbiggy was the star since he had the unique perspective on this subject. He was of Polish origin and whenever some European nation gets the delusions of grandeur, the Poland was the first dish on the menu. He got sick of that and decided to stop it. Which is understandable and totally justified. Personally, I think that he never forgive the fact that Poland was left to Soviets after the Second World War, so his hatred towards Soviets (Russians) was conscious, but on the unconscious level, the dominance of the Atlantic block (UK and the US) gave him nightmares as well. Simply when ever the power in the world accumulates, it creates bipolar situation aka it creates the counterpart and somehow one super power always creates its counterpart, logical action-reaction type of situation and always Poland somehow gets stuck in between. So in his head, this idea of powerless world hatched, the idea where the European continent would be some sort of neutral zone, without prevailing influence of any super power that would suffocate Poland ever again. That is how the idea of EU was born and he was all for it.

                            Unfortunately,there was a slight problem in all this. In order to create this heaven of peace and tolerance you need ridiculous amounts of free energy, namely hydro carbonates and there are two main sources of those goodies, the Russia and the Middle East. The North Sea utopia lasted for a brief period of time, before it was realized that it won't be sufficient to support this dream.

                            The Israel question, limits the reach of how far the West can go in catering the Arab world for cheap oil and it was realized that the reach needed for EU energy requirements will go up to the point where this relationship will be put to the test. West already experienced this in the 70'es, so King Zbiggy conjured the 19th century doctrine, of control over Eurasia, where a ring will be formed around Russia, stretching from Poland, across Balkans, over the Middle East to Far East, weakening the Russia, up to the point where it will sell its energy resources for petty cash. That is how the project called NABUCCO was conceived and it was projected to be a blood line for the EU. This pipeline should go form the Caspian sea, across Georgia, Turkey,Bulgaria, Balkans and feed the Europe.

                            However the Balkans, with its unresolved historical disputes presented the biggest threat to this project.
                            No biggy King Zbiggy, said the US elites, we will take care of that, Western style, good guys vs bad guys, cowboys and Indians. Humm, lets see, ah the Serbs, they love Russians, they are the ideal bad guys so we will pick them for the role of bad guys and support all others as good guys.

                            So a bi-partisan support was gained for this and the Clinton administration was the one whom got the job and it performed it flawlessly. From Slovenia, to Croatia,Bosnia and Kosovo, Serbs were allowed to win easily only to be drawn to the open and taken out by the NATO, leaving the good guys to clean up the mess on the ground, where they performed the job with same passion as they did in both world wars.

                            After the First World War, Serbia lost 28% of its population (60 % of its male population) and after the Second World War, Croatian genocide in Croatia, Bosnia and parts of today's Serbia, was conveniently pushed under the rug, although it claimed more than 800.000 Gypsy, Jewish and Serbian lives which, unlike the Germany, which exterminated Jews and other undermench in a industrial way, were taken by hand, with a knives, axes and hammers, in the name of national and religious purity. In retaliation but also with the same delusion of national purity, the Serbs did the same although they were not as efficient as others. So when the war ended, all these psychopaths were clumped together, labeled as anti communist and shipped across the world, to make the room for communists, since they were the only ones whom could unite Yugoslavia into a substantial dam against the dreaded Red expansion.

                            For 50 years, this horrifying truth laid under the piles of money that both East and the West were pouring in, so when the flow of cash stopped,since the need for security ceased, the skeletons started to emerge.

                            Out of all nations in former Yugoslavia, the Serbs were brainwashed the most and indoctrinated with the ideology of brotherhood and unity. This happened due to the fact that they were the largest ethnic group in the former Yugoslavia and due to the fact that they were the founders of the first Yugoslavia, which was ruled by the Serbian monarch. The failure of the first Yugoslavia was placed on the Serbian monarch, who's rule was seen as oppressive and unjust so the second Yugoslavia was built up on the ethos of denial of the first one. So Serbs had no rights to say anything since they messed up the first idea and had to let the others to do it better. But the truth was, that no one from the “brothers” actually wanted a Yugoslavia, yet they wanted their national states, ethnically and religiously clean, from the Serbs. So they were sabotaging the idea and successes of that sabotage presented as Serbian incompetence. On the other hand, the Serbian "Piemontism", the pompous maniac megalomania, deprived of all sanity was absolutely impotent in countering these efforts.

                            That is why, when the Austro Hungarian empire invaded Serbia, the first troops that crossed the border, were made out of “brothers”, the Croats, the infamous 42nd “Devil's division”, which was hacking Serbian civilians with sabers and for the first time in war history, used the hollow point rounds on those filthy barbarians from the East. This fact was hidden from the Serbian population, by the Serbian elite, because the Serbian elite was so into the pan Slavic movement and Yugoslavian idea, that it was willing to overlook the obvious. After the end of world war one, the Croats and the Bosnians didn't had the protector anymore, since the Austro Hungarian Empire was beaten so they had to accept the idea of Yugoslavia. But during the Yugoslavian existence, they were seeking every way possible to undermine it.

                            So they were constantly demanding for more and more rights, more and more autonomy until the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was, de facto, a dysfunctional state. That is why, it crumbled so fast when the Nazi's attacked, because it was betrayed from within. As soon as Nazis came, the genocide started.

                            After the world war two ended, the context of this genocide was changed, from a national program to a decadent ideology. In other words, Croatian Ustase, Bosnian Muslims, Albanians in Kosovo were killing Serbs because they were “seduced” into believing that it was the right thing to do,by the Nazi's while the Serbian Chetniks were doing the same thing because they wanted to create Great Serbia, that they called Yugoslavia. So for others it was ideology and for Serbs it was national program. That is why, the ideological brainwashing was hardest on Serbs, since all others “rejected” the ideology and accepted the new and the right one-the socialism.

                            So the Serbs, brainwashed, became the greatest supporters of communism and Yugoslavia and when the time to end the party came, they again tried to save it and logically were blamed as oppressors. But this time they had no chance. If they wanted to save Yugoslavia as communists they would be branded as decadent and evil on communist base, if they wanted to defend Serbs outside Serbia they would be branded as nationalists that wanted to create Great Serbia. All others had every right to fight them, as democrats whom want to bring down the communism and on the ethnic base because they want to defend their nation.

                            So as soon as the war started, this context started to work and from the begging, in Slovenia, they were the communists and the Yugo-army and later on they were Serbo-chetniks in Croatia and Bosnia and on Kosovo they were the absolute deranged psychopaths. That is how all others got the chance to commit ethnic cleansing of Serbs and not only were they able get away unpunished, trough media spin, the blame for that was placed on the Serbs.

                            Because all those psychopaths from the world war two, became the legal citizens in the western world and there they formed the networks and lobby groups, presenting themselves as fierce anti communists and supporters of democracy and as economy of Yugoslavia collapsed, it was very easy for them to pour immense amounts of cash in order to support “the cause”. So simply when ever the Serbs committed atrocities, the TV cameras were there, and when ever others did the same thing to the Serbs, battery was low. Things became black and white and at the end, the full might of NATO fell on the country that was never a member of the Warsaw pact.

                            So after 10 years of bloodshed, the Balkans were pacified, the route for NABUCCO was safe. King Zbiggy was pleased with this development and the same recipe was applied to Soviet Union, the Chechnya, Osetia, Dagestan all up to 2008 Georgia where the things fell apart in a spectacular way with the emergence of Vladimir Putin.

                            Somewhere in between, Peak Oil struck and energy issues started to emerge, becoming the threat to the entire human species and creating the conditions for the remake of Easter Island scenario on the global scale.
                            Last edited by Versus; 29 May 13,, 13:26.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Monash View Post
                              At the end of the day there are only what, 30 or 40 thousand Serbs in Northern Kosovo
                              Versus, how big was Serbian population of Kosovo before 1999?
                              Winter is coming.

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                              • #60
                                ~ 194k on 1990 census
                                ~ 140k on 1995 estimate

                                Full picture: Demographics of Kosovo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                                Comment

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