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Japanese PM denies Japan invaded Asian neighbors

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  • #31
    Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post
    It was due to long previous history - that animosity spiked again post Vietnam War when China crossed over the border and they both engaged in a quick punch up.

    At a military level, I can tell you that the animosity level for Viet Navy and Army (especially) is still present due ti territorial disputes

    The military animosity runs deep
    At the risk of perhaps offending some; Asian society, at least in the countries that I visited in the 1960's and 1970's was much more racist than American society at that time.
    Racism in Asia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This was especially true in rural areas. My general observation is that Blacks were the most discriminated against, next Latin Americans depending on how "Non-White" they were, then other Asians including local aboriginal. There was less racism directed against Whites than about any other group. I consider this to also be a significant factor.

    I believe that not having "Whites" do the interviews was felt to be an insult. Having the children respond to the interview would have an obvious way to respond to the insult. In other words, "You send your second class people to talk to us and they can talk to our children."
    Last edited by Linh_My; 17 Oct 13,, 12:31.

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    • #32
      I think that the other issue was that I had come back from 12 months working in the bush - and my hair was about 180cm past my shoulders - at that stage that was also a feature of the triads - so I did look a bit "gangsterish" as well :)
      At that stage also, I used to be accompanied by an armed escort -and I know that the combination of being a senior govt official, with an armed escort, my own govt 4wd (I had 1 of 3 range rovers which we had purchased for evaluations and trials) also didn't help assuage their fears about my role - of course that was the realization some 12 months later when we did post action analysis of the process

      I can tell you they weren't contemptuous - they were terrified of me
      Linkeden:
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      • #33
        Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post
        I think that the other issue was that I had come back from 12 months working in the bush - and my hair was about 180cm past my shoulders - at that stage that was also a feature of the triads - so I did look a bit "gangsterish" as well :)
        At that stage also, I used to be accompanied by an armed escort -and I know that the combination of being a senior govt official, with an armed escort, my own govt 4wd (I had 1 of 3 range rovers which we had purchased for evaluations and trials) also didn't help assuage their fears about my role - of course that was the realization some 12 months later when we did post action analysis of the process

        I can tell you they weren't contemptuous - they were terrified of me
        That puts an entirely different complexion on the issue. For example, The Nungs got most people's attention.

        Nùng people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Linh_My View Post
          That puts an entirely different complexion on the issue. For example, The Nungs got most people's attention.

          Nùng people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          as a small aside, the film Apocalypse Now was supposed to be based on the exploits of an Australian soldier in Vietnam who turned the local Mong/Montagnards into a special forces outfit. (CAPT Barry Petersen MC of the AATTV) The Montagnards regarded him as fearless as a tiger and treated him like a king - they were absolutely devoted to him and even stopped some of their prev "bad habits" out of respect to his command

          if you're interested, there is a book which goes into more detail: Tiger Men - An Australian Soldier's Secret War in Vietnam (AATTV) ISBN: 0333478193

          Even the AATTV thought that he went a bit "native" and they were far from being a conventional force.

          Wiki history of the AATTV http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AATTV

          It's Wiki, but it's a precise snapshot
          Linkeden:
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          • #35
            Originally posted by cdude View Post
            There is nothing wrong in his argument. Abd YES, you can!

            The second amendment lets you organize a militia and fight the government. Let us know the result!
            That doesn't stop armed rebellions or revolutions once those people get the idea that what they are doing is right. The Civil War could have gone south if not for some key battles.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
              They couldn't win. In fact, they were losing. They were in China for 10 years before Pearl and still could not deliver the knock out punch. And China was not without her victories. It was a matter of time before the Japanese looses one soldier too many and the attrition would turn against her small population.
              From the standpoint of Chinese history, that's not really exceptional. China represented too vast a territory and too large a population to swallow in one gulp. From the 1621 capture of the first Ming city in China proper to the 1681 collapse of the Three Feudatories, the Qing dynasty took 60 years to gain full control of China. In that interval, the Qing conducted exemplary massacres that make Japanese atrocities seem moderate by comparison. Unlike the Manchurian chieftains who patiently got on with the business of pacifying the empire by crushing dead enders and gradually eliminating opposition to their rule via administrative measures, Imperial Japan decided it wanted to conquer the world, and took on Western powers that had even more military potential than China. If they had patiently waited out the opposition in China, Japan might today occupy all of China or at least most of coastal China. But they had to indulge the banzai spirit and take on the best of the West.

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              • #37
                Look at Mongols. They did what Japanese could not.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mithridates View Post
                  From the standpoint of Chinese history, that's not really exceptional. China represented too vast a territory and too large a population to swallow in one gulp. From the 1621 capture of the first Ming city in China proper to the 1681 collapse of the Three Feudatories, the Qing dynasty took 60 years to gain full control of China. In that interval, the Qing conducted exemplary massacres that make Japanese atrocities seem moderate by comparison. Unlike the Manchurian chieftains who patiently got on with the business of pacifying the empire by crushing dead enders and gradually eliminating opposition to their rule via administrative measures, Imperial Japan decided it wanted to conquer the world, and took on Western powers that had even more military potential than China. If they had patiently waited out the opposition in China, Japan might today occupy all of China or at least most of coastal China. But they had to indulge the banzai spirit and take on the best of the West.
                  Japan didn't have a choice. War was coming against the US. The Fleet was not at Pearl for site seeing. Japan had to replace the lost oil from the US somehow and that was to take European oil holdings in Asia. To do that, they had to take the US out first.

                  That said, the tide had already turned against the Japanese in China when they attacked Pearl. They lost a few major campaigns driving into the interior. Chinese armies were stopping them. The Japanese did manage one big surge near the middle of the war but they also stretched themselves to the breaking point. They could not replace their losses while the Chinese were raising fresh new armies.

                  The army that did the Korean War would have shredded the IJA to bits.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                    Japan didn't have a choice. War was coming against the US. The Fleet was not at Pearl for site seeing. Japan had to replace the lost oil from the US somehow and that was to take European oil holdings in Asia. To do that, they had to take the US out first.

                    That said, the tide had already turned against the Japanese in China when they attacked Pearl. They lost a few major campaigns driving into the interior. Chinese armies were stopping them. The Japanese did manage one big surge near the middle of the war but they also stretched themselves to the breaking point. They could not replace their losses while the Chinese were raising fresh new armies.

                    The army that did the Korean War would have shredded the IJA to bits.
                    How is it in your analysis of WWII that Stalin could recruit Chinese people to finish off the Germans if Moscow was overrun when Japanese cannot do it?

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                    • #40
                      You mean how could Stalin take China when Tojo couldn't do it?

                      Two entirely different war machines. AUGUST STORM showed just how backwards the IJA was.

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                      • #41
                        It's very difficult to imagine what japan used to be during its empire and what it is today. It's really unbelievable.

                        Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                        The native populations would agree with you ... but in the American case, they've stopped demanding independence and assimilated.
                        Hmmm... I believe if someone gave those injuns a few nuclear warheads, they'll REALLY let everyone know what they think about having their continent seized. The current "assimilation" is their predicament. What else could they do?
                        Last edited by anil; 18 Oct 13,, 17:14.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                          The native populations would agree with you ... but in the American case, they've stopped demanding independence and assimilated.
                          Yes only after decades of warfare and their populations being decimated through diseases and attrition and brutal combat and relocation.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by anil View Post
                            Hmmm... I believe if someone gave those injuns a few nuclear warheads, they'll REALLY let everyone know what they think about having their continent seized.
                            Then, it would have been them taking over the world instead of the Brits.

                            Originally posted by anil View Post
                            The current "assimilation" is their predicament. What else could they do?
                            Bitch, moan, complain, hire good lawyers to make a ruckus.

                            Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                            Yes only after decades of warfare and their populations being decimated through diseases and attrition and brutal combat and relocation.
                            Your point?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                              Yes only after decades of warfare and their populations being decimated through diseases and attrition and brutal combat and relocation.
                              You know in the late 1890's and early 1900's that is how the Japanese saw the Chinese and felt why couldn't they conquer those heathens, to gain territory, like America did in the west with their heathens not to mention the Philippines. Then they were told no by America. Now not excusing them at all but east being east and west being west in thinking they did see a contradiction there and came to one conclusion.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
                                You know in the late 1890's and early 1900's that is how the Japanese saw the Chinese and felt why couldn't they conquer those heathens, to gain territory, like America did in the west with their heathens not to mention the Philippines. Then they were told no by America. Now not excusing them at all but east being east and west being west in thinking they did see a contradiction there and came to one conclusion.
                                It's simple. The Japanese were simply too weak to live up to megalomaniac dreams of empire and colonialism.

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