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Pakistan Army chief rejects Taliban offer for talks with conditions

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  • #31
    Originally posted by notorious_eagle View Post
    Indeed, you need a blend of everything. I do believe that seniority should be followed, especially in case of PA. If an Officer has reached the coveted 3 Star Position, that means he is competent and has the leadership qualities to lead the Army. Junior Officers promoted over Senior ones are likely to act rash to prove themselves as independent (Musharraf). The question is, who is going to be the next COAS of PA as Kiyani is due to retire soon:

    1. Lt Gen Haroon Aslam (CLS)
    2. Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood (CGS)
    3. Lt Gen Tariq Khan (Corps I, Mangla)
    4. Lt Gen Zaheer ul Islam (DG ISI)
    Any opinions (first hand or third person) on the candidates?

    Gen Tariq Khan has been the most publicly visible of the 4, given his role in leading the Frontier Corps in FATA and his easy availability to the media for interviews during that time.
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
      Any opinions (first hand or third person) on the candidates?
      All four are equally Competent and Exceptional Officers. If any four of them are promoted, i would have no qualms with it.

      NS has said that he will promote the Senior most Officer, that means either Lt Gen Haroon Aslam or Lt Gen Rashad Mahmood. The Senior Most Officers were promoted to the top slot for both Navy and Air Force, i believe the same would be followed for the Army too.

      Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
      Gen Tariq Khan has been the most publicly visible of the 4, given his role in leading the Frontier Corps in FATA and his easy availability to the media for interviews during that time.
      He is too publicly visible and considered very Pro American, these could be a disadvantage for him.

      It is a very tricky situation because although Lt Gen Haroon is the senior most Officer, he holds the position of CLS which is not considered a very important post. But he has fighting experience like Lt Gen Tariq Khan as he personally lead his troops in Battle of Peochar, it was the largest heli airborne assault in history of Pakistan at an altitude of 7000 feet. He kept their morale up and was on the front lines throughout the battle. Here's a picture of him during the assault:

      Attached Files

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      • #33
        Originally posted by zraver View Post
        Pakistan wants to get the dogs back in the dog house and to be ready to attack and bite on command again. You know- Indians, Westerners, girls, Christians...
        That was the 90's story. In the 10s how do the Paks achieve that without having their own killed in Pakistan from the TTP ?

        An Afghan Taliban that has to kill for a living requires proxy TTP for cannon fodder. In exchange for these sacrifices TTP gets sanctuary in Afghanistan and lives to fight for a more 'islamic' Pakistan.

        If the paks fail to cross out the ifs then the killing begins. How long can the PA tolerate that ?

        So long as ISAF was there it was the 'Americans war' and Paks were collateral damage. But once US leaves or draws down that argument gets weaker. The TTP will provoke the PA who will find it very difficult not to respond, this in turn creates more recruits for the TTP.

        For things to improve, Paks have to get the Afghan Taliban to lay down arms and that depends on how fair next years elections are perceived.
        Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Jul 13,, 01:17.

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        • #34
          When the US leaves, Pakistan will begin more mopen cross border operations. Ostensibly to punish the Taliban, but watch AM;s arguments about the right of self defense not extneding to military operations inside another belligerent power go right out the window. Ultiamtely pakistan will want to exert control over more territory, deny the same to Afghansitan and India and seek to recruit jihadis for J/K

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          • #35
            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            When the US leaves, Pakistan will begin more mopen cross border operations. Ostensibly to punish the Taliban.
            Oh, you mean going for TTP hideouts in Afghanistan. Mind you this is assuming things go bad and TTP intensifies attacks.

            Where are the Afghan Taliban in this case ? returned to afghanistan or still camping in Quetta.

            Easier to do if they are still in Quetta. But how will it work if they have already returned ?

            Cross border raids in that case will intensify Afghan nationalism.

            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            Ultiamtely pakistan will want to exert control over more territory, deny the same to Afghansitan and India and seek to recruit jihadis for J/K
            if the Taliban go back, then they will provide a buffer in the Pashtun areas. This will work even if Taliban lays down arms.
            Last edited by Double Edge; 13 Jul 13,, 12:29.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by zraver View Post
              When the US leaves, Pakistan will begin more open cross border operations. Ostensibly to punish the Taliban
              To punish taliban? NO!!

              Originally posted by zraver View Post
              Ultiamtely pakistan will want to exert control over more territory
              Yes, if they cannot control the afghan govt in the centre then they want strategic territories

              They want an north-west/south-east afghanistan. Not a north/south afghanistan.
              Last edited by anil; 13 Jul 13,, 09:53.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by anil View Post
                Yes, if they cannot control the afghan govt in the centre then they want strategic territories

                They want an north-west/south-east afghanistan. Not a north/south afghanistan.
                Yeah, for a gameplan that looks good. Now to see the execution.

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                • #38
                  NE:

                  On the heels of Nawaz Sharif's interview in the WSJ, in which he appeared to leave open the possibility of another extension for Kayani, comes this piece:

                  To Stabilize Afghanistan, Retain Pakistan's Army Chief
                  Posted: 09/26/2013 6:14 pm

                  The end game in Afghanistan becomes increasingly tortuous, so the world waits with bated breath on who is going to be Pakistan's next army chief. Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has to decide, but his past appointments as army chiefs did not work out for him.

                  Sharif insists that he has not changed from his previous incarnations as premier. His coterie too remains much the same. Some of them reportedly had a marked influence on him on picking the chief. A poor record coupled with status quo ante does not inspire confidence that the right choice will be made this time too.

                  General Ashfaq Kayani has had a tumultuous tenure as army chief. Initially he was lauded by the West, who felt he would provide unstinting support to combat the insurgency in Afghanistan, as opposed to the doublespeak many there believed General Pervez Musharraf often indulged in. But Kayani let the international community know that he would decide who and when to take on, no matter how much they prodded him.

                  India too got a measure of the man after the Mumbai attacks of 26/11, when the then president, Asif Zardari, had reportedly agreed to dispatch the Inter-Services Intelligence's Director General Ahmad Pasha to India, a visit which Kayani is understood to have nixed.

                  Kayani arguably remains the most powerful man in Pakistan, calling the shots on national security and foreign policy. Western leaders seek him out openly. India too seems to have realized that he is the go-to man. The Times of London reported in 2011 that India's prime minister, Manmohan Singh, had established direct communication with him, in a reversal of Indian policy. Pakistan's Inter-Services Public Relations first declined to comment, and denied the story only after Singh's office did so. Some good tandem was on display, which only seemed to lend credibility to the story.

                  But Kayani has not let power go to his head. Wikileaks revealed his disdain for Zardari, but he worked his way around him by bonding with former prime minister, Yousuf Gilani, and letting them both continue in office. Was Pakistan facing greater challenges when General Zia-ul-Haq unseated a previous premier, Zulfiqar Bhutto, or when Musharraf dethroned Sharif when the latter was prime minister earlier, or was the ineptitude of the civilians more then? One could argue no on all counts.

                  If Kayani can be faulted, it is for other reasons. One, his tacit acceptance of indiscriminate drone strikes. Second, his seeming blind spot for Pasha, who led him into tight corners. Fortunately, he replaced him with a more cautious officer. And third, undermining the army's institutional integrity by accepting a second three-year term in 2010, when a new chief could have been blooded with NATO still fully engaged in Afghanistan.

                  But that was then. Now no one knows how Afghanistan is going to pan out. Pakistan itself is reeling. The retreating Americans are on edge. Afghan President Hamid Karzai blows hot and cold. India is determined to not let Afghanistan turn against it. Will the Taliban triumph and revert to recidivist ways, or will they learn to comport in relatively moderate fashion? How can Afghanistan be prevented from spawning more 9/11s?

                  Such then are the issues facing Pakistan's next army chief. Kayani has become seasoned. In facilitating the release of the CIA contractor, Raymond Davis, he exhibited diplomacy. After Bin Laden's killing, he stooped before his own force to save his chair. After the NATO raid on the Pakistani border posts in Salala, he dug in his heels before backing off. Throwing a new man in the deep end at this stage would be fraught with risk, not just for Pakistan, but also the world at large.

                  Reuters recently quoted a Zardari confidant claiming that the contenders for Kayani's job are nowhere near as patient as him when it comes to the screw-ups of civilian leaders. Zardari for his part ducked and weaved, even decamped abroad, when he faced trouble from the army. Sharif though aspires to be the unquestioned boss.

                  Power though is serving as a reality check. He has now set up the same National Security Council that he refused to do so on the urging of a previous army chief, Jehangir Karamat. No doubt this took some convincing from Kayani. But it also shows that the two have developed a mutual understanding. It would also be prudent for Sharif not to ignore that Kayani has let democracy run its course.

                  Sharif's visage and statements reveal the enormous amount of pressure he finds himself under, not just from within Pakistan, but also without. He has seen tough times, but his mettle is going to be tested now as never before. If he is going to pull off the great escape from hell, for Pakistan and for the world, he is better off retaining a general who has dealt with the myriad complexities of the region. A novitiate will naturally have a learning curve. Kayani should be given two years to stabilize the situation. Whether he succeeds or not, he must make way for a new man then.

                  To Stabilize Afghanistan, Retain Pakistan's Army Chief | Sunil Sharan
                  Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                  https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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                  • #39
                    Pakistan Army chief rejects Taliban offer for talks with conditions

                    Okay. So, Mr. Kiyani probably would talk it over dinner.

                    An army of 1225K personnel getting hammered by mule riding terrorists - isn't something complicit here and the statement the General made?
                    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                      Pakistan Army chief rejects Taliban offer for talks with conditions

                      Okay. So, Mr. Kiyani probably would talk it over dinner.

                      An army of 1225K personnel getting hammered by mule riding terrorists - isn't something complicit here and the statement the General made?
                      Sorry, but I didn't really understand what 'statement the General made' you were referring to nor the part about 'talking it over dinner' ..
                      Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                      https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                        Sorry, but I didn't really understand what 'statement the General made' you were referring to nor the part about 'talking it over dinner' ..
                        Seriously AM? Aren't you the one poster who creates circles of posts, and of denial. Quoting lines out of context and the ones that suits you. Go wonder.

                        And that the PA, ISI and the Al-Qaida, Taliban, TTP et al. are in bed together have been proved on the night of May 1, 2011, in Abbottabad, Pakistan by Seal Team 6. Makes every single Pakistani complicit the way you all defend it. I am sorry, but that's the hard truth.
                        Last edited by Oracle; 27 Sep 13,, 14:07.
                        Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                          Seriously AM? Aren't you the one poster who creates circles of posts, and of denial. Quoting lines out of context and the ones that suits you. Go wonder.
                          That doesn't really help explain your previous post, and no, I do not ...
                          And that the PA, ISI and the Al-Qaida, Taliban, TTP et al. are in bed together have been proved on the night of May 1, 2011, in Abbottabad, Pakistan by Seal Team 6. Makes every single Pakistani complicit the way you all defend it. I am sorry, but that's the hard truth.
                          What is the relevance of this comment to the discussion on the Pakistan Army rejecting TTP talks or who the next Army Chief will be?
                          Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                          https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                            That doesn't really help explain your previous post, and no, I do not ...
                            What is the relevance of this comment to the discussion on the Pakistan Army rejecting TTP talks or who the next Army Chief will be?
                            My answer is in the first of mine you quoted. Open your eyes, W-I-D-E, and see.
                            Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Oracle View Post
                              My answer is in the first of mine you quoted. Open your eyes, W-I-D-E, and see.
                              I asked you to explain that 'first of yours' - again, I don't understand what you are referring to when you talk about 'statement the General made' or 'talking it over dinner'? Which statement by which General? Which dinner? Who is talking with whom over dinner?
                              Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                              https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                AM, here, watch these videos, you'd understand.

                                Secret Pakistan: Part 1

                                Secret Pakistan: Part 2

                                So, use the grey matter you have and stop the denial.
                                Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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