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Thread: 'Little Commandos' Kindergarten in Pakistan

  1. #16
    Contributor 1980s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Team View Post
    Every day the world seems to lose more and more faith in Pakistan's supposed dedication to fighting terrorism
    They've never been dedicated to fighting terrorism. Rather, they forment it, use it, manipulate it, and selectively target it.

    A similar Pakistani terrorism camp for training children came to light a few months ago (see attached photos). The camps are believed to belong to either the LeJ or SSP terrorist groups, which have attempted to recruit ethnic Baluchis from Iran to train and carry out suicide bombings and ambushes against Iranian security forces and Shi'a mosques in south eastern Iran. The group claiming ownership of these child 'jihadis' refers to itself as Harakat Ansar Iran, altho this group has been dismissed as a front for Pakistani terrorist groups the LeJ and SSP, which are currently waging a war against the Hazara Shi'a community of Quetta, Balochistan (Pakistan) too.

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    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    The group claiming ownership of these child 'jihadis' refers to itself as Harakat Ansar Iran, altho this group has been dismissed as a front for Pakistani terrorist groups the LeJ and SSP ...
    Could you point to where the HAI has been established as a 'front for the LeJ and SSP'?
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  3. #18
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    seems like they have TT for a handgun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    Could you point to where the HAI has been established as a 'front for the LeJ and SSP'?
    I dont know if it has been established or not, i said they have been dismissed as a front for the SSP/LeJ (by the Iranians) ie, Iranians dont acknowledge the HAI. The details of why that is, they havent made public (to my knowledge). Altho HAI itself admitted its relationship to the SSP in a statement released at the end of last year on their now suspended English blog (http://ansariran.blog.com/). The SSP also recently released a magazine called Al-Rashideen (Alrashideen - Home) with its focus on calling for 'jihad' against Iran and Shi'as. You'll note that the rhetoric, images, style and so on used by the SSP in their magazine and HAI on its social media (https://twitter.com/AnsarIran_eng) are identical.

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    I dont know if it has been established or not, i said they have been dismissed as a front for the SSP/LeJ (by the Iranians) ie, Iranians dont acknowledge the HAI. The details of why that is, they havent made public (to my knowledge). Altho HAI itself admitted its relationship to the SSP in a statement released at the end of last year on their now suspended English blog (http://ansariran.blog.com/). The SSP also recently released a magazine called Al-Rashideen (Alrashideen - Home) with its focus on calling for 'jihad' against Iran and Shi'as. You'll note that the rhetoric, images, style and so on used by the SSP in their magazine and HAI on its social media (https://twitter.com/AnsarIran_eng) are identical.
    While the SSP/LeJ receive a degree of patronage from certain political parties such as the PMLN in Pakistan, many commentators in Pakistan argue that they derive their resources and influence from Saudi/Gulf Arab States.
    The Iranians also state that Jundullah and various other organizations receive funding from the US/UK to carry out terrorist attacks and foment sectarian tensions:

    Jundullah leader Abdulmalik Rigi received $100,000 from US operatives to fuel sectarianism in Iran in just one of their meetings, his brother has said. "My brother Abdulmalik met several times with US forces in Pakistan," Abdulhamid Rigi told a group of tribal leaders and citizens in the town of Iranshahr in the southeastern province of Sistan and Baluchistan. "I myself took part in one of those meetings, where we discussed recruitment, training, infiltrating Iran and methods of inflaming Sunni-Shia sectarianism for three hours. In that meeting, the Americans gave my brother $100,000," he added. Abdulhamid also said that during the meeting in question, his brother had asked for computer and satellite equipment, which he used to recruit young Sunni Baluchies. According to Jundullah's former number two, young men were attracted to the group because it sought to portray itself as an Islamic and Jihadist movement. He said that the group promoted the idea that killing two people from the Shia community would ensure entry to Paradise as they are infidels. Abdulhamid said that he had shot his wife dead in the Pakistani city of Quetta while she was asleep, because his brother had said she must die for being a Shia and a government spy. He added that Abdulmalik too had previously killed his own wife by slitting her throat for the same reason. Abdulhamid Rigi had earlier confirmed that the ring leader had repeatedly met with US agents in the Pakistani cities of Islamabad and Karachi since 2005. "In Pakistan, Malik [Abdulmalik Rigi] contacted an individual who resided in the US, who then put him through to the FBI," he said in a recent interview with Press TV. Jundullah (meaning 'God's Army') is a Pakistan-based terrorist group closely affiliated with the notorious al-Qaeda organization and is made up of disgruntled members of Iran's Sunni Baluch community. A 2007 Sunday Telegraph report revealed that the CIA had created Jundullah to achieve 'regime change in Iran'. The report said it was the very same US intelligence outfit that had tried to destabilize Iran by 'supplying arms-length support' and 'money and weapons' to Jundullah. Another report posted by ABC also revealed that the US officials had ordered Jundullah to 'stage deadly guerrilla raids inside the Islamic Republic, kidnap Iranian officials and execute them on camera', all as part of a 'programmatic objective to overthrow the Iranian government'. Jundullah has carried out a number of bombings and other violent attacks in Iran resulting in many casualties. Some of the attacks for which it has claimed responsibility are the killings of at least 16 Iranian police officers in a 2008 attack, nine Iranian security guards in 2005, and another 11 in a 2007 bombing. The group's leader Abdulmalik Rigi has also publicly claimed responsibility for a bombing in May at a Shia mosque in the southeastern city of Zahedan, which left 25 worshipers dead and scores injured. Soon after the attack, Abdulmalik Rigi admitted during an interview with a US-based satellite TV station that his group collaborated with another anti-Iranian terrorist group, the Mojahedin Khalq Organization (MKO). "They (MKO) inform us about the regime's activities in our areas of operations and let us know of the regime's forces in these districts and send us most of the intelligence of our interest by email and messages," Rigi told the station. MKO is listed as a terrorist organization by the US, Iran, and Iraq. Nevertheless, the US government has still not classified Jundullah as a proscribed terrorist organization
    20090709 Brother of Terrorist - US Support Jundullah Terrorist Group - YouTube
    Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 02 May 13, at 12:43.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    While the SSP/LeJ receive a degree of patronage from certain political parties such as the PMLN in Pakistan, many commentators in Pakistan argue that they derive their resources and influence from Saudi/Gulf Arab States.
    The Iranians also state that Jundullah and various other organizations receive funding from the US/UK to carry out terrorist attacks and foment sectarian tensions:



    20090709 Brother of Terrorist - US Support Jundullah Terrorist Group - YouTube
    Based on the style and how HAI presents its media and imagery, id say it clearly is influenced by Arabs from Persian Gulf states, if not actually receiving some support from there too.

    As for Jundollah, its finished. Ascribing terrorism or sabotage to British, Zionist or American conspiracies is routine in Iran and nobody there buys into it. Press TV features/documentaries also have little or no credibility left, especially after the Maziar Bahari affair (you can look it up). Forced confessions and statements under duress are a regular, normal occurrence in Iran since the revolution and Press TV is complicit in high profile ones (Bahari, Ashtiani, Rigi, Panahi (Neda case) etc etc). What you need to look at are the actual commentaries and statements made by Iranian officials in parliament or to the media, and when it comes to Jondollah, starting from around 2007 Pakistan was frequently berated by senior clerical, military and political officials in Iran alongside the usual, ritual US/UK bashing. About 3 years ago i actually compiled a list of Iranian officials who had publicly berated Pakistan over international terrorism and the Jondallah issue which i share below:

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (Iranian President)
    Major General Mohammad Ali Jafari (Commander, IRGC)
    Brigadier General Hossein Salami (Deputy Commander, IRGC)
    Brigadier General Esmaeil Ahmadi Moqaddam (Commander, National Police)
    Brigadier General Ahmad Reza Radan (Deputy Commander, National Police)
    Mostafa Mohammad Najjar (Interior Minister)
    Mostafa Pour-Mohammadi (former Interior Minister)
    Heidar Moslehi (Intelligence Minister)
    Gholam-Hossein Mohseni Ejei (former Intelligence Minister)
    Ahmad Khatami (Member, Assembly of Experts)
    Ayatollah Qorban-Ali Dorri-Najafabadi (Prosecutor General)
    Alaeddin Boroujerdi (Majles member & Chairman, National Security and Foreign Policy Commission)
    Heshmatollah Falahat-Pishe (Majles member & member, National Security and Foreign Policy Commission)
    Mohammad Karami Rad (Majles member & member, National Security and Foreign Policy Commission)
    Abbas Ali Noura (Majles member, Sistan va Baluchestan)
    Payman Forouzesh (Majles member, Sistan va Baluchestan)
    Hossein-Ali Shahryari (Majles member, Sistan va Baluchetsan)

    The above list is about 3 and half years old, some of the positions/offices of the above have since changed and more names could be added.

  7. #22
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    IMO, The use of children in this way is vile and beneath contempt. It is very difficult to fathom the minds of monster parents would be a party to such pernicious abuse and waste of their children's lives. Instilling an appetite for murder of innocents in innocent children. In the US, it might be compared to parents encouraging their children to join criminal street gangs - though I have never heard of that actually happening. The image of that small child with the big shotgun is particular disturbing, what a short and sad future that child seems to have (as they all do). I have seen other disgusting pictures too, including a toddler in a suicide vest. Perhaps someone who understands this mindset could explain it to me?
    Last edited by USSWisconsin; 02 May 13, at 14:42.
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    I have seen other disgusting pictures too, including a toddler in a suicide vest.
    Have you seen kids with bombs planted surgically inside their abdomen?

    In a basement. With crude anesthesia.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    IMO, The use of children in this way is vile and beneath contempt. It is very difficult to fathom the minds of monster parents would be a party to such pernicious abuse and waste of their children's lives. Instilling an appetite for murder of innocents in innocent children. In the US, it might be compared to parents encouraging their children to join criminal street gangs - though I have never heard of that actually happening. The image of that small child with the big shotgun is particular disturbing, what a short and sad future that child seems to have (as they all do). I have seen other disgusting pictures too, including a toddler in a suicide vest. Perhaps someone who understands this mindset could explain it to me?
    Id say what is taking place in Pakistan today is worse in many ways than what happened (and still is) in certain parts of Africa in relation to children being abused like this. Children being paraded around by various terrorist groups as 'soldiers' from FATA all the way down to Balochistan seems yet another indication that the Pakistani state does not exist in these places in reality, only on paper. The UNSC and UN GA should actually start addressing this issue of terrorist training camps for children in Pakistan because the video and photos suggest that this is a trend that is increasing over there with impunity.

  10. #25
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    The UNSC and UN GA should actually start addressing this issue of terrorist training camps for children in Pakistan because the video and photos suggest that this is a trend that is increasing over there with impunity.
    How exactly do you expect the UNSC and UNGA to address this issue? The root of the problem lies with ineffective and weak government institutions, and there is nothing the UNSC and UNGA can do to address those weaknesses.
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  11. #26
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    About 3 years ago i actually compiled a list of Iranian officials who had publicly berated Pakistan over international terrorism and the Jondallah issue which i share below:
    And what about the ones claiming the US/UK are behind the terrorism and sectarian violence/hatred promoting groups as mentioned in the link earlier?
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    How exactly do you expect the UNSC and UNGA to address this issue? The root of the problem lies with ineffective and weak government institutions, and there is nothing the UNSC and UNGA can do to address those weaknesses.
    By address it, i mean the issue should be raised and discussed. If the Pakistani state does not uphold its sovereign responsibilities and its international obligations, then its claim to sovereignty over these places should be questioned. The evidence of international terror camps for children (ostensibly targetted towards China and Iran) from FATA all the way to Balochistan is a very, very disturbing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    And what about the ones claiming the US/UK are behind the terrorism and sectarian violence/hatred promoting groups as mentioned in the link earlier?
    Nobody takes that seriously. There is a long-running Iranian satire about blaming the British for everything summed up in the Persian novel My Uncle Napolean. Altho the book was written in the 70s, it is a wonderful parody of Anglophobia that is still somewhat relevant to the character of the Iranian state of today. UK/US bashing by Iran is expected, and is actually something both staged and ritualized to the point of absurdity (where the novel still has relevance despite its pre-revolutionary origins). OTHO, Iran has nothing to do with Pakistan and Pakistan plays no role in the history or imagination of Iranians. Therefore, there is no propaganda gain for Iran to publicly turn sour on Pakistan. The fact that so many officials did so is indicative of the fact that back-channel and private contacts with the Pakistanis produced no results, as such, Iranian officials from all branches of the state started to air their displeasure and anger with Pakistan over Jondallah publicly.

  13. #28
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    By address it, i mean the issue should be raised and discussed. If the Pakistani state does not uphold its sovereign responsibilities and its international obligations, then its claim to sovereignty over these places should be questioned. The evidence of international terror camps for children (ostensibly targetted towards China and Iran) from FATA all the way to Balochistan is a very, very disturbing.
    A corrupt political elite is not going to be bothered by 'questions over Pakistani sovereignty'. The lack of security and government authority in these regions certainly is disturbing, but the instability is caused by multiple entities with multiple sponsors - the Baloch terrorist groups such as the BLA receive support from Afghanistan and the West, the Sunni sectarian extremist groups receive support from the Saudi's/Gulf Arabs and parts of the political leadership in Pakistan. The lack of government authority in many of the affected areas therefore cannot be addressed solely through 'questioning Pakistan's claim to sovereignty over these areas'.
    Nobody takes that seriously. There is a long-running Iranian satire about blaming the British for everything summed up in the Persian novel My Uncle Napolean. Altho the book was written in the 70s, it is a wonderful parody of Anglophobia that is still somewhat relevant to the character of the Iranian state of today. UK/US bashing by Iran is expected, and is actually something both staged and ritualized to the point of absurdity (where the novel still has relevance despite its pre-revolutionary origins). OTHO, Iran has nothing to do with Pakistan and Pakistan plays no role in the history or imagination of Iranians. Therefore, there is no propaganda gain for Iran to publicly turn sour on Pakistan. The fact that so many officials did so is indicative of the fact that back-channel and private contacts with the Pakistanis produced no results, as such, Iranian officials from all branches of the state started to air their displeasure and anger with Pakistan over Jondallah publicly.
    You are essentially suggesting that we 'cherry-pick' statements from Iranian officials assigning blame for terrorist attacks in Iran - you listed a number of Iranian officials blaming Pakistan, a quick google search will pull up a number of Iranian officials blaming the US for supporting terrorism:
    The top officer in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is quoted by Ha’aretz as saying that the “United States, Zionists and some European countries are directly linked with the Zahedan blasts, because [Rigi, leader of the Jundullah] had confessed that the U.S. wants bomb attacks to be carried out across Iran”:

    The chief of the Revolutionary Guards’ Political Bureau Yadollah Javani to Fars that that confessions extracted by Rigi prior to execution last month showed the rebel group had received U.S. support for its fight against the regime in Tehran.

    “Rigi’s confessions prove that the United States, Zionists and some European countries are directly linked with the Zahedan blasts, because he had confessed that the U.S. wants bomb attacks to be carried out across Iran,” Javani told Fars.

    According to the Revolutionary Guards top officer, Iran’s enemies sought to divide “Shi’ite and Sunni Muslims in order to create chaos in the country,” adding that “one could not doubt the involvement of secret foreign services in the efforts to generate tension amongst Muslims.”

    Javani’s claims came as Hezbollah condemned Friday the twin suicide bombings, saying they extended their “deepest condolences to the leader of the Islamic revolution and to the government and people of the Islamic republic as well as to the relatives of the victims.”

    The statement also echoed Iranian claims that foreign intelligence services were behind the attack.

    Similar statements were made by Alaeddin Borujerdi, chairman of Iran’s parliamentary commission on national security, who said that such “terror operations will not deter Iranian’s resolve in fighting against arrogant powers”. An Iranian parliamentarian, Heshmatollah Falahatpisheh, has also reportedly stated that Iran is “the main victim” of US-sponsored terrorism.
    You even have American sources making similar claims:

    As far back as 2008, Seymour Hersh reported that, according to former CIA officer Robert Baer, the Jundullah was receiving support from the U.S.:

    One of the most active and violent anti-regime groups in Iran today is the Jundallah, also known as the Iranian People’s Resistance Movement, which describes itself as a resistance force fighting for the rights of Sunnis in Iran. “This is a vicious Salafi organization whose followers attended the same madrassas as the Taliban and Pakistani extremists,” Nasr told me. “They are suspected of having links to Al Qaeda and they are also thought to be tied to the drug culture.” The Jundallah took responsibility for the bombing of a busload of Revolutionary Guard soldiers in February, 2007. At least eleven Guard members were killed. According to Baer and to press reports, the Jundallah is among the groups in Iran that are benefitting from U.S. support.
    Even Voice of America, the official media service of the U.S. government, admits that the group may be supported by the U.S. and Israel. However, the statement is prefaced by the claim that “Iranian officials have repeatedly accused” the U.S. and Israel of supporting the group.
    The Mujahedin-e Khalq (MEK), or People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran, is an Iranian dissident group that has been formally designated for the last 15 years by the US State Department as a "foreign terrorist organization". When the Bush administration sought to justify its attack on Iraq in 2003 by accusing Saddam Hussein of being a sponsor of "international terrorism", one of its prime examples was Iraq's "sheltering" of the MEK. Its inclusion on the terrorist list has meant that it is a felony to provide any "material support" to that group.

    Nonetheless, a large group of prominent former US government officials from both political parties has spent the last several years receiving substantial sums of cash to give speeches to the MEK, and have then become vocal, relentless advocates for the group, specifically for removing them from the terrorist list. Last year, the Christian Science Monitor thoroughly described "these former high-ranking US officials - who represent the full political spectrum - [who] have been paid tens of thousands of dollars to speak in support of the MEK." They include Democrats Howard Dean, Ed Rendell, Wesley Clark, Bill Richardson, and Lee Hamilton, and Republicans Rudy Giuliani, Fran Townsend, Tom Ridge, Michael Mukasey, and Andrew Card. Other prominent voices outside government, such as Alan Dershowitz and Elie Wiesel, have been enlisted to the cause and are steadfast MEK advocates.

    ....
    Five lessons from the de-listing of MEK as a terrorist group | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk
    U.S. Government Embraces the Same Iranian Terrorist Group that Bush Cited When He Alleged that Saddam Was Sponsoring “International Terrorism” | Washington's Blog

    Blowback: In Aiding Iranian Terrorists, the U.S. Repeats a Dangerous Mistake - Max Fisher - The Atlantic
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
    A corrupt political elite is not going to be bothered by 'questions over Pakistani sovereignty'. The lack of security and government authority in these regions certainly is disturbing, but the instability is caused by multiple entities with multiple sponsors - the Baloch terrorist groups such as the BLA receive support from Afghanistan and the West, the Sunni sectarian extremist groups receive support from the Saudi's/Gulf Arabs and parts of the political leadership in Pakistan. The lack of government authority in many of the affected areas therefore cannot be addressed solely through 'questioning Pakistan's claim to sovereignty over these areas'.
    They should be bothered, because somewhere down the road the door to intervention in these areas, if not all out war, could very well be thrown open if transnational terrorism and criminality emanating out of Pakistan gets out of control. And seeing terrorism training camps for children warrants immediate international attention.

    You are essentially suggesting that we 'cherry-pick' statements from Iranian officials assigning blame for terrorist attacks in Iran - you listed a number of Iranian officials blaming Pakistan, a quick google search will pull up a number of Iranian officials blaming the US for supporting terrorism:
    The MEK issue is separate, and has nothing to do with Islamist causes. It is doubtful that Iranian collaborators and saboteurs that have targeted Iran's nuclear program and scientists are affiliated with the MEK, tho there is little doubt that whoever these people are have done so with Israeli and/or US backing. Regarding Jundollah, my reply to you is the same as i have already given. Nobody takes the claim that Jundollah was CIA backed seriously. You of course, can do so if you wish. But it no longer matters, that network doesnt exist anymore.

  15. #30
    Senior Contributor Agnostic Muslim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1980s View Post
    They should be bothered, because somewhere down the road the door to intervention in these areas, if not all out war, could very well be thrown open if transnational terrorism and criminality emanating out of Pakistan gets out of control. And seeing terrorism training camps for children warrants immediate international attention.
    My point is that, as with the corrupt Afghan political leadership, the corrupt Pakistani political elite has built up off-shore accounts and real-estate holdings in Europe and Middle East to the point where an 'international intervention' is not going to cause them too many sleepless nights. If they really cared about improving the lot of their people, they would have acted when Pakistanis were suffering and dying from poverty, disease and terrorism. I don't see a threat of 'intervention' bringing them to their senses.
    The MEK issue is separate, and has nothing to do with Islamist causes. It is doubtful that Iranian collaborators and saboteurs that have targeted Iran's nuclear program and scientists are affiliated with the MEK, tho there is little doubt that whoever these people are have done so with Israeli and/or US backing. Regarding Jundollah, my reply to you is the same as i have already given. Nobody takes the claim that Jundollah was CIA backed seriously. You of course, can do so if you wish. But it no longer matters, that network doesnt exist anymore.
    So not only are you 'cherry-picking' which statements from Iranian officials blaming other nations for terrorism you consider 'legitimate and serious', you are trying to distinguish between terrorist organizations based on whether or not they perpetrate terrorism for religious or political goals ...
    Last edited by Agnostic Muslim; 02 May 13, at 20:32.
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