1969: Massive Soviet invasion; nuclear option

[gf0012-aust]

I seem to recall that one of the things that convinced COL Ryzard Kuklinski (??) to defect was the issue that he claimed to see docs that showed that the Sov High Command was going to launch tactical nukes ahead of russian and east german forward units (they only trusted the east germans out of all their warpac partners) - so they were willing to nuke warpac partners on warpac soil to reach their objectives

[Officer of Engineers]

This one maybe?

PHP - WARSAW PACT WAR PLAN OF 1964

The google is strong with this one.

[Chogy]

Some of these old cold war documents that are coming to light are fascinating. The manpower and thought that went into war planning over those decades was staggering.

I remember visiting Spangdahlem AB in 1982 to visit a friend who had been newly commissioned as an Air Cop... base security. He helped guard F-4 phantoms in hardened facilities, hot cocked and ready to roll, and my buddy would neither confirm nor deny they had B-43 or B-61 "dial-a-yield" nukes loaded. Given the multiple layers of concertina wire, the human security element, and "lines of death" clearly marked, I suspect they were loaded.

Historians will be analyzing documents for decades to come, as they are slowly declassified.

[Gun Grape]

I remember visiting Spangdahlem AB in 1982 to visit a friend who had been newly commissioned as an Air Cop... base security. He helped guard F-4 phantoms in hardened facilities, hot cocked and ready to roll, and my buddy would neither confirm nor deny they had B-43 or B-61 "dial-a-yield" nukes loaded. Given the multiple layers of concertina wire, the human security element, and "lines of death" clearly marked, I suspect they were loaded.

Ah yes the good old days when I was with NOP. The first thing you learn at school is the phrase " I can neither confirm nor deny the presence or absence of nuclear material aboard any military installation"

[Blademaster]

The more I looked at Reforger, the more I realize it is not about naval convoys in the beginning because most of the Reforger stuff were prepositioned stocks in Europe. It was just a matter of getting airlines to fly the troops out to Europe and get the materials, equipment, and vehicles unloaded from the stocks. Then yeah, stopping Reforger was out of Warsaw Pact's capabilities because NATO's airforce was sufficiently strong and to some extent overwhelming to allow the uninterrupted flights of airlines. The only way that Warsaw Pact could stop a large percentage of Reforger was to take over Norway and Iceland and I do not think that Warsaw Pact had the ability to take over Iceland given the bottlenecks on the routes to Iceland from Mediterranean Sea and Baltic Sea and NATO's stronger naval prowess.

Even if they have taken Iceland, US has another route to Europe in which they could fly south of Bermuda and over North Africa to the underbelly of Spain and into France. Sure it would be longer but at least flights would be over friendly skies and land.

[Blademaster]

Then again, if it was prepositioned stocks, then they are very tempting targets for Warsaw Pact bombers. Taking out those prepositioned stocks would render Reforger useless unless Reforger includes a backup plan of resupplying by naval convoys. If that happens, then I m curious to what the Warsaw Pact naval commanders thought about those naval convoys and how to stop them.

[Officer of Engineers]

In Canada's case, there were 2 more brigade groups that needed to be transported to Europe within 30 days.

[Blademaster]

In Canada's case, there were 2 more brigade groups that needed to be transported to Europe within 30 days.

Prepositioned stocks or Naval convoys? If so, what routes were they expected take if Iceland or other area was compromised? or they expect to blast their way through?

[Officer of Engineers]

1st and 5th Brigades were HQed in Alberta and Quebec respectively

[Blademaster]

1st and 5th Brigades were HQed in Alberta and Quebec respectively

Looking at the map, I would say airlift with prepositioned stocks made more sense. Otherwise loading/unloading & transit takes way too long.

[Officer of Engineers]

We're not the Americans. We can't afford equipment sitting still doing nothing.

[Blademaster]

Well, moving two brigades by sea is a lot easier than moving several divisions or corps by sea. So if I had to move a corps or two, it would save me more money in the long run by prepositioning stocks.

[Albany Rifles]

Blademaster, regarding the "target" aspect of prepo assets. Massive ADA assets were dedicated to protecting the PREPO stocks.

[Blademaster]

Blademaster, regarding the "target" aspect of prepo assets. Massive ADA assets were dedicated to protecting the PREPO stocks.

Can those stop incoming tactical ballistic missiles or cruise missiles or long distance standoff missiles if USSR had such weapons in its inventory?

[Officer of Engineers]

In 69, they were nuke tipped SCUDS