Laser deployment, prototypes and uses

[cyppok]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/wo...sian-gulf.html

Navy Deploying Laser Weapon Prototype Near Iran

Published: April 8, 2013

WASHINGTON — The Navy is going to sea for the first time with a laser attack weapon that has been shown in tests to disable patrol boats and blind or destroy surveillance drones.

A prototype shipboard laser will be deployed on a converted amphibious transport and docking ship in the Persian Gulf, where Iranian fast-attack boats have harassed American warships and where the government in Tehran is building remotely piloted aircraft carrying surveillance pods and, someday potentially, rockets.

The laser will not be operational until next year, but the announcement on Monday by Adm. Jonathan W. Greenert, the chief of naval operations, seemed meant as a warning to Iran not to step up activity in the gulf in the next few months if tensions increase because of sanctions and the impasse in negotiations over the Iranian nuclear program. The Navy released video and still images of the laser weapon burning through a drone during a test firing.

The Pentagon has a long history of grossly inflating claims for its experimental weapons, but a nonpartisan study for Congress said the weapon offered the Navy historic opportunities.

“Equipping Navy surface ships with lasers could lead to changes in naval tactics, ship design and procurement plans for ship-based weapons, bringing about a technological shift for the Navy — a ‘game changer’ — comparable to the advent of shipboard missiles in the 1950s,” said the assessment, by the Congressional Research Service, a branch of the Library of Congress.

The rhinemetal story I read a while ago and figured I'll include since the theme is similar.
BBC News - Rheinmetall demos laser that can shoot down drones

Weather trials

The weapons system locked onto the unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) by using radar for a rough approximation of the location of the targets, then fine-tuned the tracking using an optical system.

The high-energy laser system was used to cut through a 15mm-thick steel girder, and to shoot out of the air a steel ball designed to mimic a mortar round.

The company has tested the laser system in a variety of weather conditions, including snow, sunlight, and rain.

Rheinmetall plans to test its laser weapons mounted on different vehicles and to integrate a 35mm revolver cannon into it.

A number of governments and defence firms are in the process of developing weapons that use or incorporate lasers. For example, Raytheon unveiled a 50kW anti-aircraft laser at the Farnborough Airshow in 2010, and in June 2012 the US Army released details of a weapon that can fire a laser-guided lightning-bolt at a target.

Now the bad part, generally all these new prototypes are deployed before "something" happens. To test em out in live combat scenarios no less.

[Chogy]

IIRC, lasers designed to blind troops are prohibited. This presents difficulties in fielding a weapon, because if you aim it at a manned craft, any unprotected people on it are going to be blinded.

So would these systems be limited only to drones and incoming weapons?

[cyppok]

IIRC, lasers designed to blind troops are prohibited. This presents difficulties in fielding a weapon, because if you aim it at a manned craft, any unprotected people on it are going to be blinded.

So would these systems be limited only to drones and incoming weapons?

No idea to your question


At about 55seconds they show how it shoots a drone down. Probably 3 second burn through rate which is ok if you hit something a few miles out what seems to me.

[citanon]

IIRC, lasers designed to blind troops are prohibited. This presents difficulties in fielding a weapon, because if you aim it at a manned craft, any unprotected people on it are going to be blinded.

So would these systems be limited only to drones and incoming weapons?

I hate to say it but I think if the blinding effect was incidental, ie, happens as a byproduct of engaging to destroy a target, then probably it's within the rules of conflict. After all, plenty of people have been blinded in the past as a result of fire, bomb blasts, artillery, etc, and those weapons are not banned.

[Monash]

IIRC, lasers designed to blind troops are prohibited. This presents difficulties in fielding a weapon, because if you aim it at a manned craft, any unprotected people on it are going to be blinded.

So would these systems be limited only to drones and incoming weapons?

In part the blinding issue would depend on the frequency (spectrum) of the light used in the laser. The wattage / power of the beam is also relevant. These devices are still in the developmental stage as can be seen from the time taken to disable the target drone. A prime goal is to increase the output so that heat and thermal shock effects disbale the target much more quickly. This is because as line of sight devices they are ideally suited as point defence weapons for taking out high speed incomming missiles (think replacement for phlannix and RAM). As such range isn't the issue but speed of deployment and the time on target is, a point defence laser cant take 5-10 seconds to burn through a missiles skin. Finally I cant see many situations where a warship would allow a hostile aircraft to get close enough for blinding to be a viable option nor one where a military pilot would want to get that close either since it would mean he had to fly through the ships air defence envelope to get there. Also don't military piolts where aviation helmets designed to counter danges such as nuclear "flash" ???

Lastly I think if you were in a plane targeted by one of these things going blind would be the least of your problems. I think the imminent detination of your fuel tank or weapons payload would beat the top of your list.

P.S. Sorry for the poor typing on a bus as I do this.

[Chogy]

Perhaps the rule applies to weapons designed to blind. If a laser weapon is engineered to kill a vehicle, and blinding is incidental, as Citanon mentioned, then it'd pass muster.

I keep picturing a tripod mounted laser device sweeping a human wave attack, like WW1. The optics could be designed to widen the beam a bit, and if energy levels are adequate, it would probably be devastating on unprotected troops. Even if the blinding isn't permanent, the attackers would be dazzled and useless for some time.

On the flip-side, the laser would stand out like a beacon to sensors, and it'd probably get hammered quickly with counter-fire.

[Doktor]

From 1995 UN Protocol:

Article 3
Blinding as an incidental or collateral effect of the legitimate military employment of laser systems, including laser systems used against optical equipment, is not covered by the prohibition of this Protocol.

[Gaus]

I hate to say it but I think if the blinding effect was incidental, ie, happens as a byproduct of engaging to destroy a target, then probably it's within the rules of conflict. After all, plenty of people have been blinded in the past as a result of fire, bomb blasts, artillery, etc, and those weapons are not banned.

Laser blinds via it's energy that's why it has the radioactivity insignia, but other use for example YAL-1 or even Ground stations(like MTHEL) are not yet able to make the theory practice, i mean MTHEL can destroy incoming projectiles via heating them so they explode in air, but the YAL-1(which is chemical laser) can only destroy Balistic Missile with medium range and thus the missile had to be on liquid propelant otherwise failure, it can't even stop ICBM(even the multilayer SM3,THAAD,and PAC3 + Arrow system that is not hit to kill can't guarantee-STAR WARS study have shown that for ABM nRailgun(Electromagnetic cannon) is the best solution.

I think that navy will use the laser but not for offensive, sure they will use them for defence, but i think that Laser in NAVY has a great potential as a fast way for energy transfer i.e ship refueling is dangerous thus ultrasilent subs(and AIP) are on hydrogen cells or sterling but laser energy transfer even from ship to ship is magnificent.

I'm thinking about the sea launch platforms for space (they used Zenit rocket from Ukraine) which is under way.

[Gaus]

Perhaps the rule applies to weapons designed to blind. If a laser weapon is engineered to kill a vehicle, and blinding is incidental, as Citanon mentioned, then it'd pass muster.

I keep picturing a tripod mounted laser device sweeping a human wave attack, like WW1. The optics could be designed to widen the beam a bit, and if energy levels are adequate, it would probably be devastating on unprotected troops. Even if the blinding isn't permanent, the attackers would be dazzled and useless for some time.

On the flip-side, the laser would stand out like a beacon to sensors, and it'd probably get hammered quickly with counter-fire.

There is va weapon like that, it looks like a SA10 X-band antenna mounted on large truck, but it uses microwave so anybody who will try to break the perimeter will fail(even if he wears west) because for a moment this system is heating up your skin well above 100 degrees Celsius and you go back by instinct.

Now this system is on test in Afghanistan.