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  • As Iraq Effort Drags On, Doubts Mount At Home

    Christian Science Monitor
    June 17, 2005
    Pg. 1

    As Iraq Effort Drags On, Doubts Mount At Home

    Recruiting falls short and polls show desire to bring troops home.

    By Brad Knickerbocker, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

    The war in Iraq is entering a critical stage, and it has as much to do with public attitudes at home as it does with boots on the ground.

    Public patience appears to be growing thinner - a mood now echoed by some Republicans in Congress. The landscape of public and political opinion remains nuanced: Many who didn't support going to war say the US must persevere toward an eventual hand-off to Iraqi forces. Yet in interviews and polls, that fortitude is matched by growing doubts, with rising numbers of Americans calling for their troops to come home.

    Among the recent signs:

    *As US combat fatalities pass the 1,700 mark and the "global war on terrorism" stretches out longer than US involvement in World War II, the number of Americans who say the US should begin withdrawing troops from Iraq - nearly 60 percent in a new Gallup poll - is at its highest level in two years.

    *Army recruiters are finding young men and women - and especially their parents - increasingly unwilling to sign up for training and what is likely to be more than one deployment overseas. Last month, the Army's original goal was to attract 8,050 new recruits; instead, only about 5,000 headed for boot camp. Applications to all three US military academies have dropped as well.

    *Governors of both parties have expressed concern about National Guard troops not being available for summer fire fighting and other local emergencies. Together with reserve forces, those citizen-soldiers make up about 40 percent of all GIs in Iraq. Most of them are established individuals with families and careers, and they typically don't hesitate to send back unvarnished reports from the war zone.

    All this comes as military commanders in Iraq are saying - on the record - that it's likely to take years to adequately train Iraqi forces, and some Republican lawmakers are talking about the administration's failure to anticipate the insurgency.

    And yet the public - even those who opposed the war in the first place - seems not to be of a mind to "cut and run."

    Like Jack Johnson, who played professional football for the Chicago Bears back in the 1950s and is now retired. "It's very discouraging that there doesn't seem to be an end in sight," he says. "It seems like we shouldn't have gotten involved, but we are involved and we can't get out."

    Or Debbie Wilson, also of Chicago, a single mother of six, including two sons of military age. "I feel that we're in so deep ... that we can't just pull out," she says.

    Still, all of this increases the political pressure on the Bush administration, and especially on members of Congress thinking about next year's election, as they sort their way through the fighting and negotiating and nation-building that go on simultaneously in Iraq.

    "I feel that we've done about as much as we can do," says Rep. Walter Jones (R) of North Carolina, who's joining other lawmakers this week in introducing legislation calling for a timetable for US troop withdrawal.

    Experts say part of this has to do with the messy and dangerous nature of counterinsurgency, and part has to do with American attitudes toward war in general - particularly since it's been a generation since the US was involved in extended armed conflict.

    "It is easy to defeat enemies if our goal is simply to destroy them," says military analyst Loren Thompson at the Lexington Institute in Arlington, Va. "The military can do so quickly, and the public will be supportive. But it is nearly impossible to remold them in our image, because the military lacks the skills and the public lacks the patience."

    More simply, "We are not a patient nation when it comes to war," says David Segal, a sociologist at the University of Maryland who specializes in the armed forces and society. In his talks with those close to conduct of the war, he says, he's hearing a lot more references to Vietnam now - from those in Congress of both parties as well as privately from officers at the Pentagon.

    The shadow of Vietnam may be seen in recent opinion surveys as well.

    Asked in a Washington Post/ABC poll last week whether the US "is making good progress" or "has gotten bogged down" in Iraq, 65 percent chose the latter. Meanwhile, the number describing US casualty levels there as "unacceptable" has risen to 73 percent, the highest point since the US-led invasion of Iraq began.

    Interviewed outside a Kroger grocery store in Nashville, Tenn., Billy Vinson, an electrician and Navy veteran, says he supports President Bush and the war effort. Still, he laments the loss of American lives and says, "I wish the war was over."

    "I personally probably would have brought our people home by now," he adds.

    Not everyone feels that way.

    Bratton DuBose, a financial adviser in Bozeman, Mont., says he's supported the war in Iraq all along, and he still does, even though the outcome is unclear. "Now that we're there," he says, "we have to see it through to the end."

    Yet increasing numbers of Americans apparently disagree. Recent news out of Iraq, the Pew Research Center reported this week, "is significantly undermining support for the US military operation there."

    The evidence? The level of support for an "immediate withdrawal of US troops from Iraq," according to Pew, has grown from 36 percent last October to 42 percent in February to 46 percent today.

    Dr. Segal and other experts cite several reasons for this.

    One is that what the White House dubbed "the global war on terrorism," which began with the attacks of September 2001 and has become centered in Iraq, now has lasted longer than the period from Pearl Harbor to V-J Day, ending World War II in the Pacific.

    Meanwhile, the all-volunteer force, begun in the wake of political opposition to the Vietnam War, means that fewer and fewer Americans have any direct connection to the armed services.

    "It's not so much an estrangement as it is a distance between the military and society," says political scientist John Allen Williams of Loyola University Chicago.

    In particular, says Dr. Williams, who's also a retired US Naval Reserve captain, "There is less willingness of the elites in society to have their children serve or to regard military service as a worthwhile career for movers and shakers."

    As he took his troops back to Iraq last year, Marine Lt. Gen. James Mattis reportedly told them, "Our friendly strategic center of gravity is the will of the American people."

    Put another way, "US public opinion is the critical factor in the war, as it is in any guerrilla war," says national security analyst Ivan Eland of the Independent Institute in Oakland, Calif.

    As Iraqis and Americans seek to prevail in a type of conflict where "victory" is hard to gauge and the time for an occupying force to leave is even harder to decide, that critical factor - for now, at least - seems to have gotten shakier.

    Anne Stein in Chicago, Amy Green in Nashville, Tenn., and Todd Wilkinson in Bozeman, Mont.,contributed to this report.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

  • #2
    I would love to see the surveys about Iraq and correlate them to the reasons why they have their opinion: MSM, milblogs, actually talking to multiple soldiers who have served in Iraq, politicians. It would be a very interesting study. I don't think that the Administration has helped the case by referring to the insurgency too often as being on its last legs. There is no doubt that the insurgents are losing. The fact that we are conducting more large scale operations in Anbar and in western Ninevah demonstrates that the IA's more active role is freeing up American units to conduct these ops. My guess is that Ramadi will be the next big concentration of Iraqi forces.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by shek
      I would love to see the surveys about Iraq and correlate them to the reasons why they have their opinion: MSM, milblogs, actually talking to multiple soldiers who have served in Iraq, politicians. It would be a very interesting study. I don't think that the Administration has helped the case by referring to the insurgency too often as being on its last legs. There is no doubt that the insurgents are losing. The fact that we are conducting more large scale operations in Anbar and in western Ninevah demonstrates that the IA's more active role is freeing up American units to conduct these ops. My guess is that Ramadi will be the next big concentration of Iraqi forces.
      I agree. My biggest complaint about this administration is its seeming indifference to the need for clear and concise communication about the WoT. We need more "Why we Fight" and "how are we really doing?" messages from the White House, I think. Such information would really reduce the artificial tension that exists currently.

      -dale

      Comment


      • #4
        According to ABCNews/Washington-Post survey (World News Tonight 6/16/05), 58% Americans now say Iraq war was not worth fighting for to begin with.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by konkerer
          According to ABCNews/Washington-Post survey (World News Tonight 6/16/05), 58% Americans now say Iraq war was not worth fighting for to begin with.
          That's nice, but I can't see what it effects. You can't go back and not invade. There isn't another presidential election for 4 years. The Republicans are secure in Congress. Public opinion polls aren't going to effect what goes on in Iraq for two very simple reasons. Bush has nothing to fear from the Democrats, and in general, that's not how Bush operates. Like him or not, he's not a finger-in-the-wind type of guy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by konkerer
            According to ABCNews/Washington-Post survey (World News Tonight 6/16/05), 58% Americans now say Iraq war was not worth fighting for to begin with.
            A Pew Poll conducted 8-12 June found that a plurality of Americans (47% vs. 45%) "the U.S. made the right decision . . . in using military force against Iraq"

            http://people-press.org/reports/print.php3?PageID=965

            There's no doubt that public opinion has been declining on Iraq. However, with the steady drumbeat of defeatists in the MSM and coverage focused on carbombs filed by reporters reporting from hotels, I'm not that surprised that the numbers have been going down.
            "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

            Comment


            • #7
              I found another poll that seemed to go more in-depth of the Iraq issue.

              http://www.tipponline.com/articles/05/i061405.htm

              Americans Split On Military Effort In Iraq, But Most Acknowledge Positive Outcomes
              Investor's Business Daily - June 14, 2005

              Americans may not see eye-to-eye with President Bush on all issues, but a majority believe that the U.S. military action in Iraq will lead to a more democratic — and by extension freer — Middle East, according to the latest IBD/TIPP Poll.

              Conducted June 6-10 among 913 adults, the poll found nearly two of every three (60%) think America's foray into Iraq has helped sow the seeds of democracy in the Middle East. Among Republicans, that number jumps up to 87%. Even large numbers of Democrats (44%) and independents (53%) agree with that sentiment.

              "Most Americans see a democratic Middle East as one positive outcome of the Iraq War," said Raghavan Mayur, president of TIPP, a unit of TechnoMetrica Market Intelligence, IBD's polling partner.

              What's more, a large majority (70%) also believe it's important for the U.S. and coalition countries to maintain a military presence in Iraq.

              IBD/TIPP asked Americans about some of the roles that the U.S. should take on in Iraq. The results show the generosity of the average citizen. Eighty-four percent believe that it's important for the U.S. and coalition countries to continue to train Iraqi security and police forces, 79% think it's important to provide Iraq with economic aid and 74% think it's important to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure.

              Beyond Iraq, experts believe that the U.S. expedition to root out terrorists in Afghanistan and neutralize Saddam Hussein's offensive biological and chemical weapons capabilities have been a wake-up call for other rogue nations.

              Softer Stance

              "Since the Iraq War, nations like Libya, Syria and others in the Middle East have taken a softer stance towards America and the fulfillment of international obligations," said Mayur.

              Last week, he noted, a Jordanian military court ordered Jordanian-born terrorist Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, along with conspirator Mohammed Qteishat, to surrender within 10 days. They're facing charges of plotting deadly terrorist attacks in Jordan that killed one person.

              "Moreover, even though high-profile targets like bin Laden and al Zarqawi are still on the loose, the global terror complex has sustained serious damage," Mayur says.

              Most Americans agree. According to the poll, 57% agree that the Iraq War has "dealt a significant blow to terrorist networks worldwide." More than twice as many Republicans see things this way than Democrats (87% vs. 39%).

              And while countries like Iran and North Korea have not come around to the U.S. perspective, the deployment of American military forces, as well as a resolute diplomatic stance, are helping to keep negotiations alive.

              The IBD/TIPP Poll uncovered a similar sentiment among Americans, with just 46% agreeing with the statement that the Iraq War has "helped rein in regimes like Iran and North Korea."

              But the Iraq War will likely have a far-reaching impact on U.S. prestige abroad. Far from tarnishing the nation's image, a large share of Americans believe that it has enhanced the U.S.' strategic position in the Asia-Pacific region (47%), while 44% do not agree.

              According to Mayur, "countries like Japan, the Philippines, Pakistan and South Korea have all formed closer partnerships with the United States to clamp down on terrorism and have provided support of one form or another to America's forces in Iraq."

              Since the end of the Cold War, U.S. strategy has been to ensure stability both regionally and globally.

              "Tactically, this has meant many things, including anti-proliferation efforts vis-a-vis WMDs and the neutralization of terrorist network, who even in the pre-9-11 world made it a habit of attacking America's forward-deployed military forces. Bush has pursued both of these areas with determination and unmatched vigor," said Mayur.

              Glass Half-Empty?

              Although much good has come out of the Iraq War, the media have repeatedly viewed it as a half-empty glass. Perhaps that's why, when we asked if "U.S. efforts in Iraq are helping to make the world a safer place or not?" 46% said yes and 49% said no.

              Nearly half (49%) are satisfied with the Bush administration's Iraq policies and 42% are not satisfied.

              However, Americans do think the war is causing higher prices at the gas pumps. In fact, just 32% would say that the Iraq War has helped stabilize the world's oil supplies.

              In retrospect, the nation is evenly split in terms of its support or opposition for the U.S. military action in Iraq that took place in April of 2003 (48% support, 49% oppose). Support is strongest among Republicans (84%) and weakest among Democrats (21%).
              "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree the Whitehouse has been foolish to repeatedly say the insurgency is about to falter. It's as if they think no one will remember that they've made the same claim incorectly before.
                And I don't aprove of the way the administration handled the toppling of Hussein, but the only thing worse than making one mistake is making more mistakes, and pulling out of Iraq right now would simple leave Iraq in the midst of a civil war, the US would once again have no access to Iraqi oil, and 1900 Coalition soldiers would have died for nothing. If anything the Coalition needs more troops in Iraq to further speed up the training of Iraqi Forces and to provide greater humanitarian aid to Iraqi civilians, as the lack of services and jobs in so much of the country is only helping the rebels.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leader
                  That's nice, but I can't see what it effects. You can't go back and not invade. There isn't another presidential election for 4 years. The Republicans are secure in Congress. Public opinion polls aren't going to effect what goes on in Iraq for two very simple reasons. Bush has nothing to fear from the Democrats, and in general, that's not how Bush operates. Like him or not, he's not a finger-in-the-wind type of guy.

                  You are making it sound like Iraq war was about getting Bush and the Republicans relected, majority of the people would agree with you.
                  h

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by konkerer
                    You are making it sound like Iraq war was about getting Bush and the Republicans relected, majority of the people would agree with you.
                    h
                    Only of you chose to read his post that way. And as a deluded fool, no doubt you did choose to do exactly that.

                    I read what he wrote and I didn't come to any such conclusion. Neither do I have some kind of moonbat whacko theory about using a divisive and unpopular war that was and remains a huge dice roll that may or may not turn out to be a successful venture as a way to win an election.

                    But then again, I'm not part of your Moonbat Conspirasist Fantasy of the Month Club, either.

                    Ya big ole moonbat.

                    Oh, and if the majority of the people would agree that the Iraq War was a plot to get Bush and the Republicans re-elected, I guess this whole 'democracy in America' thang has come a cropper, has it not? Presumably, they saw through this elaborate plot (as you yourself have), and decided to
                    1) Not vote
                    2) Vote for Bush and the Republicans anyway
                    3) Go along with a 'stolen' election
                    or 4) We're all living in The Big Lie, a Matrix-like world were everything is an illusion.

                    But more likely, you're just wrong.
                    Last edited by Bluesman; 18 Jun 05,, 20:40.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=861035

                      Memos Show British Concern Over Iraq Plans

                      LONDON Jun 18, 2005 — When Prime Minister Tony Blair's chief foreign policy adviser dined with Condoleezza Rice six months after Sept. 11, the then-U.S. national security adviser didn't want to discuss Osama bin Laden or al-Qaida. She wanted to talk about "regime change" in Iraq, setting the stage for the U.S.-led invasion more than a year later.

                      President Bush wanted Blair's support, but British officials worried the White House was rushing to war, according to a series of leaked secret Downing Street memos that have renewed questions and debate about Washington's motives for ousting Saddam Hussein.

                      In one of the memos, British Foreign Office political director Peter Ricketts openly asks whether the Bush administration had a clear and compelling military reason for war.

                      "U.S. scrambling to establish a link between Iraq and al-Qaida is so far frankly unconvincing," Ricketts says in the memo. "For Iraq, `regime change' does not stack up. It sounds like a grudge between Bush and Saddam."

                      The documents confirm Blair was genuinely concerned about Saddam's alleged weapons of mass destruction, but also indicate he was determined to go to war as America's top ally, even though his government thought a pre-emptive attack may be illegal under international law.

                      "The truth is that what has changed is not the pace of Saddam Hussein's WMD programs, but our tolerance of them post-11 September," said a typed copy of a March 22, 2002 memo obtained Thursday by The Associated Press and written to Foreign Secretary Jack Straw.

                      "But even the best survey of Iraq's WMD programs will not show much advance in recent years on the nuclear, missile or CW/BW (chemical or biological weapons) fronts: the programs are extremely worrying but have not, as far as we know, been stepped up."

                      Details from Rice's dinner conversation also are included in one of the secret memos from 2002, which reveal British concerns about both the invasion and poor postwar planning by the Bush administration, which critics say has allowed the Iraqi insurgency to rage.

                      The eight memos all labeled "secret" or "confidential" were first obtained by British reporter Michael Smith, who has written about them in The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Times.

                      Smith told AP he protected the identity of the source he had obtained the documents from by typing copies of them on plain paper and destroying the originals.

                      The AP obtained copies of six of the memos (the other two have circulated widely). A senior British official who reviewed the copies said their content appeared authentic. He spoke on condition of anonymity because of the secret nature of the material.

                      The eight documents total 36 pages and range from 10-page and eight-page studies on military and legal options in Iraq, to brief memorandums from British officials and the minutes of a private meeting held by Blair and his top advisers.

                      Toby Dodge, an Iraq expert who teaches at Queen Mary College, University of London, said the documents confirmed what post-invasion investigations have found.

                      "The documents show what official inquiries in Britain already have, that the case of weapons of mass destruction was based on thin intelligence and was used to inflate the evidence to the level of mendacity," Dodge said. "In going to war with Bush, Blair defended the special relationship between the two countries, like other British leaders have. But he knew he was taking a huge political risk at home. He knew the war's legality was questionable and its unpopularity was never in doubt."

                      Dodge said the memos also show Blair was aware of the postwar instability that was likely among Iraq's complex mix of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds once Saddam was defeated.

                      The British documents confirm, as well, that "soon after 9/11 happened, the starting gun was fired for the invasion of Iraq," Dodge said.

                      Speculation about if and when that would happen ran throughout 2002.

                      On Jan. 29, Bush called Iraq, Iran and North Korea "an axis of evil." U.S. newspapers began reporting soon afterward that a U.S.-led war with Iraq was possible.

                      On Oct. 16, the U.S. Congress voted to authorize Bush to go to war against Iraq. On Feb. 5, 2003, then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell presented the Bush administration's case about Iraq's weapons to the U.N. Security Council. On March 19-20, the U.S.-led invasion began.

                      Bush and Blair both have been criticized at home since their WMD claims about Iraq proved false. But both have been re-elected, defending the conflict for removing a brutal dictator and promoting democracy in Iraq. Both administrations have dismissed the memos as old news.

                      Details of the memos appeared in papers early last month but the news in Britain quickly turned to the election that returned Blair to power. In the United States, however, details of the memos' contents reignited a firestorm, especially among Democratic critics of Bush.

                      It was in a March 14, 2002, memo that Blair's chief foreign policy adviser, David Manning, told the prime minister about the dinner he had just had with Rice in Washington.

                      "We spent a long time at dinner on Iraq," wrote Manning, who's now British ambassador to the United States. Rice is now Bush's secretary of state.


                      Manning said, "Condi's enthusiasm for regime change is undimmed." But he also said there were signs of greater awareness of the practical difficulties and political risks.

                      Blair was to meet with Bush at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, on April 8, and Manning told his boss: "No doubt we need to keep a sense of perspective. But my talks with Condi convinced me that Bush wants to hear your views on Iraq before taking decisions. He also wants your support. He is still smarting from the comments by other European leaders on his Iraq policy."

                      A July 21 briefing paper given to officials preparing for a July 23 meeting with Blair says officials must "ensure that the benefits of action outweigh the risks."

                      "In particular we need to be sure that the outcome of the military action would match our objective… A postwar occupation of Iraq could lead to a protracted and costly nation-building exercise. As already made clear, the U.S. military plans are virtually silent on this point."

                      The British worried that, "Washington could look to us to share a disproportionate share of the burden. Further work is required to define more precisely the means by which the desired end state would be created, in particular what form of government might replace Saddam Hussein's regime and the time scale within which it would be possible to identify a successor."

                      In the March 22 memo from Foreign Office political director Ricketts to Foreign Secretary Straw, Ricketts outlined how to win public and parliamentary support for a war in Britain: "We have to be convincing that: the threat is so serious/imminent that it is worth sending our troops to die for; it is qualitatively different from the threat posed by other proliferators who are closer to achieving nuclear capability (including Iran)."

                      Blair's government has been criticized for releasing an intelligence dossier on Iraq before the war that warned Saddam could launch chemical or biological weapons on 45 minutes' notice.

                      On March 25 Straw wrote a memo to Blair, saying he would have a tough time convincing the governing Labour Party that a pre-emptive strike against Iraq was legal under international law.


                      "If 11 September had not happened, it is doubtful that the U.S. would now be considering military action against Iraq," Straw wrote. "In addition, there has been no credible evidence to link Iraq with OBL (Osama bin Laden) and al-Qaida."

                      He also questioned stability in a post-Saddam Iraq: "We have also to answer the big question what will this action achieve? There seems to be a larger hole in this than on anything."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bluesman
                        Only of you chose to read his post that way. And as a deluded fool, no doubt you did choose to do exactly that.

                        And you as a "deluded fool" decided to write a long rant??
                        Don't tell me that Iraq war had no bearing on Bush relection.
                        Only a "deluded fool" would say that it did not.

                        Now be nice and try to converse in a civil manner, see how easy it is to use the phrase "deluded fool".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by konkerer
                          And you as a "deluded fool" decided to write a long rant??
                          Don't tell me that Iraq war had no bearing on Bush relection.
                          Only a "deluded fool" would say that it did not.
                          That's not what you claimed the majority of people beleived. Of course THE FACT OF the Iraq War and its conduct had a bearing on the election, maybe even a decisive one. But it wasn't why the War was begun nor why it continues to be fought. Only a deluded fool would claim the opposite, and a total nut would claim the majority of people believe that is the case. And therefore your claim
                          Originally posted by konkerer
                          ...Iraq war was about getting Bush and the Republicans relected, majority of the people would agree with you.
                          would make you a [fill in the blank].

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by konkerer
                            You are making it sound like Iraq war was about getting Bush and the Republicans relected, majority of the people would agree with you.
                            h
                            Bush 41 invaded Iraq in February 1991 with the next presidential election 21 months away in November 1992. He lost. Bush 43 invaded Iraq in March 2003, 20 months prior to the next presidential election in November 2004. If anything, history shows that it was a bad idea to try and use an invasion to boost your reelection campaign.
                            "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bluesman
                              Only of you chose to read his post that way. And as a deluded fool, no doubt you did choose to do exactly that.

                              I read what he wrote and I didn't come to any such conclusion. Neither do I have some kind of moonbat whacko theory about using a divisive and unpopular war that was and remains a huge dice roll that may or may not turn out to be a successful venture as a way to win an election.

                              But then again, I'm not part of your Moonbat Conspirasist Fantasy of the Month Club, either.

                              Ya big ole moonbat.

                              Oh, and if the majority of the people would agree that the Iraq War was a plot to get Bush and the Republicans re-elected, I guess this whole 'democracy in America' thang has come a cropper, has it not? Presumably, they saw through this elaborate plot (as you yourself have), and decided to
                              1) Not vote
                              2) Vote for Bush and the Republicans anyway
                              3) Go along with a 'stolen' election
                              or 4) We're all living in The Big Lie, a Matrix-like world were everything is an illusion.

                              But more likely, you're just wrong.
                              Hey, what's the definition of "moonbat." I've seen it thrown around all the time on blogs/message boards, but haven't figured out its exact meaning other than being an attack against someone.
                              "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                              Comment

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