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Pakistan 'expanding nuclear arsenal to deter US attack'

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  • #16
    I know India can't win a nuclear war against China. I don't think China would be a winner either but India would come out far worst than China.

    As for strictly a conventional war, no army is going to march to Dehli. Not Russian, not Chinese, not American.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      I know India can't win a nuclear war against China. I don't think China would be a winner either but India would come out far worst than China.
      Because they have more powerful nukes and more nukes than us? But sir is it not true that both our countries live in the villages? I think in a nuclear war we would both be able to finish off each others major cities and towns. But that would still leave more than 70% of both populations still alive to rebuild.

      Of course it would take another 50-100 years and we can then forget the Asian century.

      P.S. Just today Indian Government has tabled Right to Food Act (or Bill,I am not sure).

      In this we will feed at almost zero cost 800,000,000 people. Huge it is, and also an indication that nearly 60-70% of our population is rural and agrarian.
      Last edited by doppelganger; 21 Mar 13,, 14:22.

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      • #18
        Everything you asked for is in the good Col's reply. Read it again.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Doktor View Post
          They will have the right to bear the consequences of such move. If it ever happens.
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          They have the right to start a war in whichever way they feel. Their lawyers will find the legal language to do so. They also have the right to lose such a war.
          Thks for replying,

          So in other words, they would not do it because of the consequences of a chinese counter-strike. Why I asked this question was I wanted to know will Nations hold china somewhat responsible if pakistan uses her nukes. I don't know much about this stuff, but I was thinking nations will somewhat hold china responsible to a certain degree because of the help china gave during the cold war.

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          • #20
            No more than we hold Russia responsible for Chinese nukes or the US for British and French nukes.

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            • #21
              Shyam Saran is taken very seriously by the Indian administration as well as by India watcher's,

              I like to know the intention behind Pakistan's expanding Nuclear assets, the obivious one's to have leftover's after a US attempt to de-nuclearize Pakistan(It is near impossible to do that before, now it is simply is not possible), how will Pakistan react to such an adventure by USA, use the left over at US targets in a 3000 Kilometer radius? Israel too? India is an obvious targets?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
                Shyam Saran is taken very seriously by the Indian administration as well as by India watcher's,
                And I know exactly where he got his info from. Hans Kristensen of the Nuclear Notebook from the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists.

                You can start reading from here

                http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/cen...tml#post672950
                http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/cen...tml#post672960

                And you will find my analysis of that analysis here

                http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/cen...tml#post674052

                In short, I don't care who Shyam Saran is. He's quoting Hans Kristensen and Hans took a giant leap into the unknown without one single shred of evidence.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
                  Shyam Saran is taken very seriously by the Indian administration as well as by India watcher's,

                  I like to know the intention behind Pakistan's expanding Nuclear assets, the obivious one's to have leftover's after a US attempt to de-nuclearize Pakistan(It is near impossible to do that before, now it is simply is not possible), how will Pakistan react to such an adventure by USA, use the left over at US targets in a 3000 Kilometer radius? Israel too? India is an obvious targets?
                  I believe OoE is arguing that there are several practical constraints on a rapid Pakistani nuclear weapons expansion:

                  1. Lack of testing/validation of its latest Plutonium based warheads

                  2. The expansion of the Khushab complex points to a desire to expand Plutonium production, and from that one can infer that it implies a desire to increase Plutonium based warheads, but the expansion is still in progress and there is no evidence that the new Khushab plants have started producing nuclear weapons fuel. Once the Khushab complex expansion is online, the issue mentioned in point 1 still comes into play
                  Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                  https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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                  • #24
                    For those who may not have read it, here is an assessment of Pakistan's WGU and Plutonium stockpiles, production capacity and quantity of warheads,made in a paper by Zia Mian in 2009:

                    It finds that by 2020, Pakistan could have accumulated approximately 450 kg of plutonium from the Khushab reactors and 2500–6000 kg of highly enriched uranium (HEU) (90 percent enriched) for enrichment capacities ranging from 15,000–75,000 SWU. These stocks would be sufficient for perhaps 100–240 simple fission weapons based on HEU and for 90 plutonium weapons.

                    Pakistan may be able to produce more weapons if it either increases its rate of uranium mining or has more advanced weapon designs requiring less fissile material in each weapon.
                    http://www.princeton.edu/sgs/publica...an-Nay-Raj.pdf
                    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by doppelganger View Post
                      I know. I was just asking more mano imano style. :red:

                      I guess that also means which countries can bring the fight to India and hope to win. Beause I do not think India has the navy currently to take the fight to other countries across oceans?

                      Does China have that (leaving countries it can reach by land)?

                      Just thinking aloud here.
                      USA got that capability.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tennetc View Post
                        I want to ask a question pls:

                        If pakistan nukes an indian advancing army or even a indian city, will the indians have the right to nuke china because of chinese connection to pakistans nuclear progarm during the cold war?
                        There are no doubts about the requirements. Only the indian military and the indian prime minister knows for sure about the actual size of india's nuclear arsenal. That arsenal size is the determinant factor.

                        btw, there are no winners in a nuclear war. India has enough capability to leave china in a vulnerable state for the others to enjoy.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Tennetc View Post
                          I want to ask a question pls:

                          If pakistan nukes an indian advancing army or even a indian city, will the indians have the right to nuke china because of chinese connection to pakistans nuclear progarm during the cold war?
                          Pakistan will nuke an Indian advance only if it wants to commit national sucide or if China is part if the campaign. Then any enemy threat towards India will be a valid target to get nuked or hit otherwise. If Chinese forces are not threatening India then I dont see the need to for India to even consider doing so.

                          Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by lemontree View Post
                            Pakistan will nuke an Indian advance only if it wants to commit national sucide or if China is part if the campaign. Then any enemy threat towards India will be a valid target to get nuked or hit otherwise. If Chinese forces are not threatening India then I dont see the need to for India to even consider doing so.
                            As we know, even though china has stoped all nuclear help with pakistan, china to this day still helps pakistan with military stuff.Does the indian Gov view these acts as hostile towards india or does it treat this as just two nations doing military business?...china may be using pakistan to act as a counter force agianst inida.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by payeng View Post
                              USA got that capability.
                              Yes obviously sir. I already conceded superiority of US, Russia, and even China. My question was more about whether there was any other country besides thee above three that could fight and win a full on war against India.

                              As far as I know, besides the above three, only the British and the French have the naval capability to reach India, but I am not convinced they can win once they are there.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Tennetc View Post
                                As we know, even though china has stoped all nuclear help with pakistan,...
                                We cannot be certain, as Pakistan helped test N Korean nukes in 1998 and possibly sent over some of theirs to test in the recent N Korean testing. All this suggests active CCP support to both Pakistan and N Korea.

                                china to this day still helps pakistan with military stuff.Does the indian Gov view these acts as hostile towards india or does it treat this as just two nations doing military business?...
                                To be frank, there no Chinese military equipment given to Pakistan that is a game changer (apart from the nuke technology and ballistic missiles). It does not matter if China sells Pakistan military equipment, if not China Pakistan would buy from someone else.

                                Pakistanis use Chinese equipment out of compulsion and not because they have a choice. Having said that, we in India may make fun of the crappy Chinese stuff, but we also admire your skill in indiginisation and innovation when it comes to military industrial growth.

                                china may be using pakistan to act as a counter force agianst inida.
                                That is without a doubt....but not for long.

                                Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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