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Thread: Afghanistan - NATO War aimless and unwise

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankie View Post
    Oh thats ok then , i just love giving hard earned money away , especially to countries who harbor and train terrorists to kill my fellow Brits .
    I think its a problem with my English. Most of us are still getting a hang of it.

    I was actually trying to agree with you.

    Charity begins - and ends - at home.

    Anything else is simply politics.
    Last edited by doppelganger; 20 May 13, at 19:28.

  2. #17
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    I have off-topic opinions too.
    Last one was On?

    Like how there are no free lunches, and how your tax pounds are spent with expectations of tangible returns in terms of plum defence contracts.
    You answered your second with your first question. No such thing as free lunch.

    On topic, however, I have nothing more to say to this.
    Hmmm...
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    No such thing as free lunch.
    Exactly.

    So time to get off the "charity" high horse and admit the truth.

    Namely, times are tough, getting tougher, and we need the money at home.

  4. #19
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedicabby View Post
    You have a nuke weapons program as well as a space program. IMHO my tax pounds should not be sent to you're country.
    I would absolutely agree, as there seems to be an expectation that we will have to bend and bow and give our defense deals to UK companies because of this aid. However it appears that your politicos would be embarrassed if we didn't.

    British foreign aid: India tells Britain 'we don't need the peanuts you offer us' | Mail Online
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  5. #20
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    I don't know if I have entioned this before. Along with studying management, I also part-time in an event management company started by some seniors fom school. We manage shows, launches, campaigns, surveys, that sort of thing. As part of our clientele, we have many of these so-called charity not for profit foreign aid organizations.

    Well the stark truth is, most of these (and I can tell you there are some BIG names involved) are very "for profit" for those running the show. There are big sums of money involved that are "managed" by these NFPO/NGOs, and a major portion of that goe towards their "internal" expenses.

    If I was to put a ratio - for an India (replace with any other thord world Asian or African or South American country here) project, for every dollar (or pound) actually spent in India for the Indian population, 2 dollars (or pounds) get spent in the country of origin/management on the foreign population runing the program.

    So for every 3 dollars (or pounds) that UKAid or other such organizations claim to have donated to India (or any other country - South Africa for instance) - only one dollar makes it here.

    Not to mention the expectation of the billion+ dollar (or pound) defence deals expected in return as quid pro quo.

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/int...ey-wasted.html

    Don't derail this more from the topic pls.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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    David Cameron's foreign aid: How your money is squandered | Mail Online

    Don't derail this more from the topic pls.
    Sure. Now that the "foreign aid/charity" horse has been sufficiently beaten to death so as to (hopefully) not rise again.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    Just what I heard from these Afghan students I met on Delhi flight. Going home for vacation to Kabul. And what I know from some Baloch friends I have in college who have an Afghan Anjuman based out of Kondhwa (an area in Pune) here - which numbers in excess of 12,000 students for Pune alone. Biggest population after the Iranians. The Jordanians long since pushed down the order.
    I'd be wary of the equivalent of 'a bloke down the pub told me', or the modern equivalent 'a guy on the net told me'. I looked up quite a few sources in India & Afghanistan and couldn't find a figure for students above 7500 or for scholarships above 1000. The figures might be higher, but I'd need to see some references.

    As for the scholarships. Apparently India is spending about $US90milion on scholarships for Afghan students. I suspect this is part of India's attempt to project 'soft power' into Afghanistan to counter Pakistani influence. Ultimately projecting power soft or hard costs money. It gets spent on aid, diplomatic posts, scholarships & beefing up the armed forces (to name a few). The balance may shift about, but it never works on a single axis and it always involves giving money to foreigners. The only question is how much, to whom & for what.


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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    I'd be wary of the equivalent of 'a bloke down the pub told me', or the modern equivalent 'a guy on the net told me'. I looked up quite a few sources in India & Afghanistan and couldn't find a figure for students above 7500 or for scholarships above 1000. The figures might be higher, but I'd need to see some references.
    Agreed. Was just sharing what I heard and know locally.

    As for the scholarships. Apparently India is spending about $US90milion on scholarships for Afghan students. I suspect this is part of India's attempt to project 'soft power' into Afghanistan to counter Pakistani influence. Ultimately projecting power soft or hard costs money. It gets spent on aid, diplomatic posts, scholarships & beefing up the armed forces (to name a few). The balance may shift about, but it never works on a single axis and it always involves giving money to foreigners. The only question is how much, to whom & for what.
    That's how the discussion began. Tankie justly feels miffed at his money being used to bankroll a hostile nation (Pakistan). Afghanistan is not a hostile nation for us. But 90 million USD of our money can educate a whole lot more Indian kids. So when I heard this amount, I was quite taken aback. In fact to be honest, even the Afghan said it sheepishly (to his creit), accepting that he realised that there were so many poor and needy students in India.

    The funny thing is, most of the Afghan (and Iranian) students in India are actually from pretty well to do families. Sure our money would be welcome, but not a deal breaker were it to be diverted elsewhere more fuitfully.
    Last edited by doppelganger; 21 May 13, at 12:43.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    As for the scholarships. Apparently India is spending about $US90milion on scholarships for Afghan students. I suspect this is part of India's attempt to project 'soft power' into Afghanistan to counter Pakistani influence. Ultimately projecting power soft or hard costs money. It gets spent on aid, diplomatic posts, scholarships & beefing up the armed forces (to name a few). The balance may shift about, but it never works on a single axis and it always involves giving money to foreigners. The only question is how much, to whom & for what.
    Exactly. It sucks to pay money to make friends, but whatever works, works.

    Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
    The funny thing is, most of the Afghan (and Iranian) students in India are actually from pretty well to do families. Sure our money would be welcome, but not a deal breaker were it to be diverted elsewhere more fuitfully.
    Their economic conditions are irrelevant really. In real-politics, business and in the International arena, I would rather be friends with powerful families that can later help me rather than with those who can't. Ultimately this money is for my benefits.

    For our internal purposes, I would rather stop the bleeding that corruption brings in.
    Last edited by antimony; 21 May 13, at 19:25.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Exactly. It sucks to pay money to make friends, but whatever works, works.
    Influence costs money. Simple equation. There is no guarantee that you get a return on investment, but there is a guarantee that if you invest nothing you will get nothing.



    Their economic conditions are irrelevant really. In real-politics, business and in the International arena, I would rather be friends with powerful families that can later help me rather than with those who can't. Ultimately this money is for my benefits.

    For our internal purposes, I would rather stop the bleeding that corruption brings in.
    Great minds.

    It strikes me that there are a great many ways for India to find a spare 90 million and probably even more examples of that much being needlessly wasted.

    As for the money going to the 'well off'', couldn't agree more. The people lining up for tertiary education overseas are more likely to be from the upper classes. In any case, the people you want to get onside are the ones from the ruling classes and they cost. Peasants come cheap, but who cares.


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