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Ben Zygier - Prisoner X

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
    Is everyone here seriously suggesting that any western nation including the US, Britain, Australia, Canada, France et cetera et cetera does not, as a matter of course, forge or falsify passports of other nations to allow their various spys and operatives to travel? I know for a fact little old New Zealand does, regularly, as does Australia.
    The CIA has an entire floor at Langley devoted to forging passports and other such official documentation.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
      The CIA has an entire floor at Langley devoted to forging passports and other such official documentation.
      Hmmm...

      Is it official?
      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Doktor View Post
        Hmmm...

        Is it official?
        The Office of Technical Services is a sub-department within the CIA Directorate of Science and Technology
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Minskaya View Post


          Who We Are
          We are...assigned around the world, meeting regional requirements for clandestine collection, conducting audio and video surveillance, providing secure communications for CIA assets, and training liaison services on technical subjects...

          We are...stationed along with National Clandestine Service officers in the field, advising and assisting them on the full range of technical operations and how they can augment, and confirm aspects of their tradecraft...

          We are...enabling tactical operations by analyzing data as well as writing longer-term strategic assessments...

          We are...designing, building, and operating satellite reconnaissance systems to support global information superiority...

          We are...researching, developing, and applying advanced technologies that provide the nation a significant intelligence advantage, and much more...
          Tsk, no passports there ;)
          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Doktor View Post
            Tsk, no passports there ;)
            OTS/TSS - component responsible for providing supporting gadgets, disguises, forgeries, secret writings, and weapons
            Technical Services Staff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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            • #21
              I am sure they do it. I am sure even our guys who are low in the food-chain do it, too.

              I was just teasing you if you seen it.
              No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

              To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                Really? Someone forgot to tell the French and Swiss
                Timeline: The Rainbow Warrior sinking - National News | TVNZ


                The only outcome of this internationally by the way was that Europe embargoed our exports until we agreed to release them. Gentlemans agreement indeed. Violence and mayhem have regularly ensued from those false passports NZ and Australia supply to their more loose public servants while traveling abroad, without regard to the sensitivities of the nations whose passports were misappropriated.
                Firstly I did specifically state non violent operations, a description that hardly fits the Rainbow Warrior incident. Secondly by"cousins" I was referring to our Commonwealth cousins i.e England, Canada and New Zealand whose intelligence services lacking the reach and resources of the US often cooperate and support one another and lastly in using the term "gentlemen" I was of course specifically excluding France and Israel since as has been noted by other members including O of E their reputations/actions preclude them.
                If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Monash View Post
                  Firstly I did specifically state non violent operations, a description that hardly fits the Rainbow Warrior incident. Secondly by"cousins" I was referring to our Commonwealth cousins i.e England, Canada and New Zealand whose intelligence services lacking the reach and resources of the US often cooperate and support one another and lastly in using the term "gentlemen" I was of course specifically excluding France and Israel since as has been noted by other members including O of E their reputations/actions preclude them.
                  Then I'm not sure what you're saying. Certainly none of ABCA behaves any differently than the French or Israelis. As for commonwealth, we're far more likely to use our African or Caribbean commonwealth members passports or EU passports than ABCA because there's no effective difference between those countries and our own.

                  Edit to add: minskaya had already linked this
                  Technical Services Staff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  To which I'll add this
                  Family Jewels (Central Intelligence Agency) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  Not that there's anything special about what the US does in comparison with the rest of us it's just, like Israel, people really like trawling through their garbage for tasty morsel so this sort of stuff is easy to find.
                  It's rather hard to find out about NZ SAS operations for instance except by word of mouth. Our freedom of information, like Australias, is far more proscribed than the US
                  Last edited by Parihaka; 14 Mar 13,, 11:15.
                  In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                  Leibniz

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                    Then I'm not sure what you're saying. Certainly none of ABCA behaves any differently than the French or Israelis. As for commonwealth, we're far more likely to use our African or Caribbean commonwealth members passports or EU passports than ABCA because there's no effective difference between those countries and our own.

                    It's rather hard to find out about NZ SAS operations for instance except by word of mouth. Our freedom of information, like Australias, is far more proscribed than the US
                    Just that Britain, Australia and NZ can and do often share resources (including passports) for conventional intelligence operations but that as far as can be determined a line has been drawn in the sand re: using each others passports for "wet work" - to the extent that any of these countries intelligence services engage in such practices (James Bond excluded of course :)).

                    Please note I draw a distinction between the intelligence services involved and SAS style covert military Ops.These days in most parts of the world where functioning governments exist they aren't usually necessary - a quick word in the right ears backed up by money and threats gets the POI locked up in a grubby cell fairly quickly. The only case that comes to mind off the top of my where the SAS got involved was the "botched" arrest of two? IRA hit men in Gibraltar (a British dependency) a few years ago and the splash back at the time was pretty bad for the British government. So in general being the "risk adverse" types they are our first world Commonwealth pollies tend to avoid this type of operation if they can. Lie cheat and steal, fine just don't tell us about it. Kill someone - you better have exhausted all other options.
                    If you are emotionally invested in 'believing' something is true you have lost the ability to tell if it is true.

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                    • #25
                      More details appear to emerge. If this is true it sounds like Mr Zygier was in well above his head. I heard a further detail on the news tonight that after this mess he actually returned to Australia after this & it was only after he began talking about being in Mossad that he was called home to Israel. Impossible to pin down what is definate here.

                      On a side note, former journalist & Melbourne radio drive time host Rafael Epstein actually went to school with Zygier. He is currently researching a book on the matter.

                      Melbourne-born former Mossad agent Ben Zygier was responsible for one of the most serious security breaches in Israeli history, a breach that led directly to the imprisonment of two of Israel's most prized Lebanese informants.

                      After a months-long investigation initiated by Fairfax Media and completed by a team of reporters assembled by Germany's Der Spiegel magazine, it can be revealed that Mr Zygier was outfoxed in a game of cross and double-cross that ended with tragic consequences.


                      Unable to bear the shame of his downfall, and facing a minimum 10-year jail sentence with no prospect of a return to the Mossad, Mr Zygier apparently took his own life on December 15, 2010, just hours after a last telephone call with his mother, Louise, in Melbourne.


                      ''Zygier wanted to achieve something that he didn't end up getting,'' said a highly placed Israeli official familiar with the probe into the Zygier case. ''And then he ended up on a precipitous path. He crossed paths with someone who was much more professional than he was.''

                      Recruited to the Mossad at the beginning of 2004, Mr Zygier, who took up Israeli citizenship in the mid-1990s, was first assigned to work in Europe trying to infiltrate companies that had business links with nations hostile to Israel.

                      According to the chief of one company he infiltrated, while Mr Zygier was ''extremely sharp'', he lacked focus. When Mr Zygier started behaving rashly and costing the company important business, it was decided ''to let him go''.

                      Unable to get the kind of results expected by the Mossad, Mr Zygier was moved to a desk job in Tel Aviv, a psychological blow that was the start of his undoing.

                      In an effort to improve his reputation in the Mossad and get back into a coveted operations role, he embarked on a rogue mission without informing his superiors.

                      Acting on information to do with the identity of an east European man known to be close to the militant Lebanese Shiite movement Hezbollah, Mr Zygier set up a meeting with the man towards the end of 2008 with the intention of turning him into a double agent who could pass information about Hezbollah back to the Mossad.

                      But the reverse happened, with Mr Zygier becoming the conduit for information flowing from Tel Aviv to Hezbollah. Contact between the men went on for months, with the European repeatedly demanding Mr Zygier prove his Mossad bona fides by giving up real intelligence.

                      Mr Zygier complied, giving up the names of Israel's two top Lebanese informants, Ziad al-Homsi and Mustafa Ali Awadeh. Both men were arrested in spring 2009, with each sentenced to 15 years' jail with hard labour.

                      It can also be revealed that when Mr Zygier was arrested in January 2010, he was carrying a compact disc holding yet more intelligence files. It is believed he may have been intending to pass it to his Hezbollah contact.
                      Read more: Zygier betrayed Israel


                      Zygier betrayed Israel
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