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Secret Migration of Jews to the US 1939-45

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  • #16
    Originally posted by zraver View Post
    The destruction of records by war and by design prevent an true accounting.
    Actually, at least for German Jews we do have those records. There are memorials with names up and everything in most towns.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by kato View Post
      Actually, at least for German Jews we do have those records. There are memorials with names up and everything in most towns.
      But its not so clear for Jewish groups from other areas. But it doesn't matter, we can prove enough murder that it doesn't matter, the Holocuast happened. Arguing over numbers is like arguing over the deck chair arrangement on the Titanic.

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      • #18
        The Holocaust is - by far - the best researched genocide in history. Every nation involved has developed an archival database, and a Department of Holocaust Studies is a sub-discipline of the History Department in hundreds of western universities. The preponderance of Holocaust scholars and historians estimate the total number of Jewish victims to be 5.2 - 5.8 million.
        sigpic

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
          The Holocaust is - by far - the best researched genocide in history. Every nation involved has developed an archival database, and a Department of Holocaust Studies is a sub-discipline of the History Department in hundreds of western universities. The preponderance of Holocaust scholars and historians estimate the total number of Jewish victims to be 5.2 - 5.8 million.
          For its size & scale it is one of the best researched events in history. For a variety of reasons there is probably no single event of this size that has the depth & breadth of both scholarship & documentation. While there are certainly gaps in the official documents, the depth & quality of oral history on the holocaust is truly remarkable. There is much more to learn, and we will never know everything we would like to, but the amount we do know is truly remarkable. Would that all such events were so well remembered to history.
          sigpic

          Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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          • #20
            Originally posted by kuku View Post
            The dangers such people pose is the degradation and destruction of their own nations, before they pose any danger to Israel, such venom being spit with an agenda behind it should sound red lights in the nations they live in. it is sad however if they are publicised as intellectuals and given a platform to speak, they will burn their own homes much before they even look at the direction of Israel.
            If the Arabs are listening to such people as leaders instead of condemning such people, and making sure they are made fun of as insane idiots, they are just ruining their own future.
            Concur!

            The example of Pakistan is what they are conveniently ignoring.
            sigpicAnd on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
              The Holocaust is - by far - the best researched genocide in history. Every nation involved has developed an archival database, and a Department of Holocaust Studies is a sub-discipline of the History Department in hundreds of western universities. The preponderance of Holocaust scholars and historians estimate the total number of Jewish victims to be 5.2 - 5.8 million.
              And at the end of the day the final number of victims doesn't matter. Even with a plus/minus of 13.33 to 13.79% we are talking about the deliberate industrialized deaths of millions of innocent people. After all, the evil is not in the numbers killed, but that they died at all in such a manner. That is why I don't care about numbers debates in regards this topic. The scholarship precludes any type of out right denial based on evidence. However, when the argument is not how many died, but that no one died and disregards the evidence... that needs to be confronted.
              Last edited by zraver; 10 Feb 13,, 23:57.

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              • #22
                I agree with Z here.

                It is wrong to quantify the loss of lives. Were they 4, 5 or 6 millions is sort of irrelevant.

                It was a mass killing of huge magnitude and was done deliberately against civilians, old people, women and children.

                Confronted with the mass evidence, whoever denies this ever happened should be sent for observation.
                No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by zraver View Post
                  And at the end of the day the final number of victims doesn't matter. Even with a plus/minus of 13.33 to 13.79% we are talking about the deliberate industrialized deaths of millions of innocent people. After all, the evil is not in the numbers killed, but that they died at all in such a manner. That is why I don't care about numbers debates in regards this topic. The scholarship precludes any type of out right denial based on evidence. However, when the argument is not how many died, but that no one died and disregards the evidence... that needs to be confronted.
                  In the overall Holocaust schema, you are correct. In the world of Academia however, generalities do not suffice and rightfully so. In any worthwhile field of inquiry, foundational knowledge is immeasurably enriched with each new breath of clarity. That is precisely what Father Desbois has been doing since 2000... extracting historical clarity from the hamlets and hillocks of Ukraine and Belarus. In some measure, the nameless are rescued from a fate of total obscurity.
                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Minskaya View Post
                    In the overall Holocaust schema, you are correct. In the world of Academia however, generalities do not suffice and rightfully so. In any worthwhile field of inquiry, foundational knowledge is immeasurably enriched with each new breath of clarity. That is precisely what Father Desbois has been doing since 2000... extracting historical clarity from the hamlets and hillocks of Ukraine and Belarus. In some measure, the nameless are rescued from a fate of total obscurity.
                    Father Desbois is doing s rescue mission for the unknown victims. But at the end of the day his work neither supports nor denies the Holocuast itself. That is proven by other records, wreckage and evidence like the camps, the Nuremburg laws, minutes of meetings etc. These types of evidence are what move it from mere murder or even mass murder to the level of evil men should not be allowed to even try to achieve.

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