Page 2 of 20 FirstFirst 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 295

Thread: What if Nixon Succeeded

  1. #16
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    Since when USA hesitated to use military to protect her interests?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  2. #17
    Contributor DarthSiddius's Avatar
    Join Date
    23 Nov 11
    Location
    Burlington, ON
    Posts
    416
    Wouldn't it be very difficult for the Chinese regardless, to intervene because of extremely harsh weather and terrain (winter in Himalayas)?

  3. #18
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Dec 04
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    3,960
    There's a reason the invasion of East Pakistan was planned for December. The Himalayan passes are sealed due to heavy snow during the winter, allowing India to pull away troops from the Chinese border and concentrate them on her Eastern and Western fronts.
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

  4. #19
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    15 Dec 06
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Since when USA hesitated to use military to protect her interests?
    Didn't get you. Who is saying that they did?

  5. #20
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    Didn't get you. Who is saying that they did?
    This is how I got post #15.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  6. #21
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    15 Dec 06
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    This is how I got post #15.
    That's not what I meant. Nixon did send the Big E to the Bay of Bengal after all. But the strategy of convincing the Chinese to intervene, rather than the US intervening itself was more sound for several reasons.

    1. The Chinese wanted Pakistan to remain intact as much as the US did.

    2. The US was embroiled in Vietnam at the time and facing anti-war protests at home. Getting involved in another war in a far away place, on the side of a dictatorship against a democratic nation, where the benefits to the US are not immediately apparent would have been tough to sell politically. Especially since the media was reporting that the dictatorship in question was massacring innocents.

    3. Even after the 1962 war, there was still Indian land that the Chinese coveted. It might have been possible to persuade them to see this as an opportunity.

    4. While Pakistan was important, was it important enough to put American soldiers in harm's way? I don't know the answer. I guess Nixon probably thought it was better to put Chinese soldiers in harm's way.

    There were mitigating circumstances of course. Like what Tronic mentioned about the Himalayan passes being closed. And the soviets.

    But this is the "What if" section. So we are going OT.
    Last edited by Firestorm; 07 Feb 13, at 23:15.

  7. #22
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    USSR openly fighting US ally is more then enough to change home opinion in the 70s. No?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  8. #23
    Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    15 Dec 06
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    USSR openly fighting US ally is more then enough to change home opinion in the 70s. No?
    USSR would have intervened only if the Chinese or the US itself attacked India first. If the US wanted to sell it domestically, they needed a reason for the initial intervention. They could have managed it, but like I said, it would be much easier to let the Chinese do the dirty work. If only the Chinese attacked, I am still convinced that the Soviets would have limited themselves to forcing the Chinese to stop by opening a front in Lop Nor. And China wasn't officially a US ally in 71. Nixon went there the following year, although secret talks had been going on for a while.

    That's why I said, this "what if" scenario becomes more interesting if the soviets are out of the picture. However, the physical hurdles like snow covered mountain passes remain.

  9. #24
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Sep 07
    Posts
    1,662
    Gentlemen thank you all for the responses. Its indeed refreshing.
    I would get back with my own assessment in a while.
    Just some food for thought - Nixon presumed the InA's intention was to dismantle the PA(and hence the panicky/urgency).
    Which was not.
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  10. #25
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
    Join Date
    29 Sep 07
    Posts
    1,662
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Since when USA hesitated to use military to protect her interests?
    Upfront, it seems the US blinked. Many factors in play. The US Ambassador/Counsel in erst while East Pakistan didn't help either.
    India was committed to that war and US was committed to some other theatres. Don't doubt the US capabilities, but priorities are what dictated the situation.
    One thing for sure - Mrs. Gandhi was willing to walk the mine field, alone or otherwise.
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  11. #26
    Officer of Engineers
    Guest
    Thinking this through ...

    It would have been a freaking disaster for the Chinese, even if the Soviets did not get involved. The Indian Army of 1971 was way superior to the PLA of 1979. That meant that the PLA would have been met with certain defeat. About the only good side for the allies is that the Indian Army must mass to meet the Chinese head on and that would have prevented the destruction of the Pakistani Army in Bangladesh though I still see it losing the war, albeit a negotiated settlement instead of outright independence.

    It would have meant that the Chinese would have sought to appease the Soviets once they knew of their own weaknesses and in 1971, they did not have American backing.

    Mao's faction would most certainly be deposed and a pro-Soviet camp emerging. Imagine a China armed with Soviet weaponry of the 70s and 80s.

    Thank god it Nixon failed.

  12. #27
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    But if Nixon persuades Chinese to open the front, wont that understand some sort of US "backing" for the Chinese side?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  13. #28
    Senior Contributor Mihais's Avatar
    Join Date
    15 Apr 08
    Location
    Transylvania
    Posts
    5,037
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    But if Nixon persuades Chinese to open the front, wont that understand some sort of US "backing" for the Chinese side?
    Backing with words only is worse than no backing at all.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  14. #29
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
    Join Date
    25 Aug 08
    Location
    Skopje, Macedonia
    Posts
    13,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihais View Post
    Backing with words only is worse than no backing at all.
    Then, no wonder Chinese didn't "seize" the "opportunity".
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  15. #30
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
    Join Date
    27 Dec 04
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    3,960
    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    But if Nixon persuades Chinese to open the front, wont that understand some sort of US "backing" for the Chinese side?
    The US was already backing the Chinese post-'60s.
    The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 9 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 9 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Only Nixon can go to China
    By gunnut in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 20 Sep 10,, 20:54
  2. Richard Nixon Good or Bad President?
    By Freeloader in forum American Politics & Economy
    Replies: 156
    Last Post: 16 Sep 09,, 15:56
  3. Troopergate : When Nixon met Sarah
    By Traps in forum American Politics & Economy
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12 Oct 08,, 07:36
  4. Great Rulers Succeeded by Nincompoops
    By Amled in forum Ancient, Medieval & Early Modern Ages
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07 Jun 06,, 01:48
  5. Nixon's approach to cold war
    By Hindle in forum Ground Warfare
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 15 May 06,, 20:57

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •