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Thread: What if Nixon Succeeded

  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    Having the enemy in your rear areas is very, very unnerving, this caused a big psychological collapse within the Pak Eastern Command, that is why a 24,000 strong garrison in Dhaka surrendered to a brigade (101 Communication Zone).
    Wasn't it unnerving for the IA as well? They had sidestepped all the strong points as you say. How could they be sure that fear of the Mukti Bahini enough would ensure that the PA did not counter-attack in the rear areas?

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    Wasn't it unnerving for the IA as well?
    It must have been, anything can happen in war.

    They had sidestepped all the strong points as you say. How could they be sure that fear of the Mukti Bahini enough would ensure that the PA did not counter-attack in the rear areas?
    When you hear that the enemy has overrun all your forward postions and is in your rear, all communications are out, no supplies are coming in, no air support, you are being shelled and straffed - and the enemy has already made contact with your troops. What do you do? - you either fight or surrender. The same was done by most Pak units.

    The Mukti Bahini, was also made up of regular East Pakistani bengali units, these units were also used for fients and harassing operations.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    Wasn't it unnerving for the IA as well? They had sidestepped all the strong points as you say. How could they be sure that fear of the Mukti Bahini enough would ensure that the PA did not counter-attack in the rear areas?
    The difference is that the InA knew where the Pakistanis were. The reverse is not true.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    You are right sir, but that is why we (my bn and bde) avoided all the strongly defended localities and raced towards Dhaka. All minor opposition was overrun and stronge points were avoided. The enemy did not manuever out of their strong points for fear of the Mukti Bhaini.
    Basically the IA caught the PA in their OODA loop and the PA became paralyzed with fear and it led to hunkering down and totally ceded the momentum to IA.

    So, Captain, if you were in PA's shoes, how would you overcome that initial paralyzing fear?

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    So, Captain, if you were in PA's shoes, how would you overcome that initial paralyzing fear?
    Leadership.

    I recently saw a movie that exhumes this quality. When you're being overran and all your comrades say retreat, the leader is the one who stood and fight

    Assembly

    Yes, it's a Commie Chinese Army piece but it nevertheless details battlefield leadership both in and out of battle.

  6. #231
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    The Battle of Hilli

    This piece seems to confirm some of our assertions.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Leadership.

    I recently saw a movie that exhumes this quality. When you're being overran and all your comrades say retreat, the leader is the one who stood and fight.
    I am not saying giving up the fight but I am talking about staying where you are and hunker down and resist because that is the easiest way to overcome that chaos and paralyzing fear. But when you do that, you totally give up the offensive momentum and you are now forever reacting as opposed to acting first. How do you overcome that?

  8. #233
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    When the enemy is attacking, it means they want your position. You are denying that position to them. You are being pro-active.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by bolo121 View Post
    A fascinating thread to read as a civilian.

    Was wondering if this method would work.
    You have a corps ordered to advance on certain axes, it in turn assigns divisions to particular routes, the division parcels out brigades to accomplish this and in the end this boils down to a recon company actually moving down a particular road.
    All the PA needs to do is block with a battalion, cut up the recon units so that the parent unit has to stop, concentrate, feel out the position, put in an attack and then get moving after this again.
    This stop go stop go should eat up a lot of time.
    Major,

    See what you've done? You got their brains to start working.

    Bolo, you are describing the Reconnaisance Battle. It's a very crucial piece of any tactical engagement. You may not win the reccee battle but you cannot lose it. If you don't win, make sure it's a tie, otherwise, get the hell out of there.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    I am not saying giving up the fight but I am talking about staying where you are and hunker down and resist because that is the easiest way to overcome that chaos and paralyzing fear. But when you do that, you totally give up the offensive momentum and you are now forever reacting as opposed to acting first. How do you overcome that?
    Nope.Tactically,defense is the more powerfull form of combat.Psychologically the attack is easier.Uraaaa,we're going to rip your guts!!You don't have time to think.You move,take cover,move again.Ignore the wounded,don't even look at them,that's what medics are for.
    Being on the defense is being on the receiving the end of the crazy bastards coming for you.Before that you're the target of their effort to shape the battlefield.Meaning you get bombed,your comms are jamed etc...
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

  11. #236
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    How much time given the limited manpower would it take the PA to do what I suggested in my earlier post?

  12. #237
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    Major, where are you? Time to put in your opinion. Don't hold out on us.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    You Indian gents would know better than me but what is the Pakistani qualities of Majors, LCols, and Cols?
    Sir

    Whats the point?

    The General Staff was rotten to the core. The COAS and other Senior Generals instead of fulfilling their professional duties were busy having orgies in their harems. CNS who was drunk in a meeting with his Officers remarked, "What a lovely bonfire", after the IAF knocked out fuel depots in Manora. Incompetent Officers whom wouldn't have made past the rank of Major were promoted to Senior Positions during the 50's due to massive shortage of Officers. Officers whom were competent were sidelined to accommodate Officers who only knew how to say 'Yes Sir'. Mid and Junior Level Officers fought to the best of their abilities, but this war was lost even before the first shot was fired.

    'Lions led by Lambs'.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemontree View Post
    some where down the line they seemed to have alienated themselves from the troops - the feudal lord system - may be a reason. But a majority of their officers so not rub shoulders with their men, baring a few exceptions. This was evident in 1971 and even when I was serving on the LOC.
    Sir

    This is not true. Officers from Day 1 in PMA are taught to work together with the Jawans and operate as one entity. In fact, newly commissioned Officers have to spend 6 months to a year sharing quarters with Jawans. It is not at all uncommon for Officers to visit the Quarters of Jawans and ensure that they have adequate arrangements. During the operations in Swat and SW, 1 and 2 Star Officers lead from the front sharing quarters and meals together with the troops. Corps Commanders, GOC's and even the COAS regularly visit the troops on the front line to keep their morale up. Those Officers with a British mindset have long retired. In fact, the current COAS Kayani has worked very hard in implementing a program to improve the living standards of Regular Jawans and improve the Synergy that exists between Officers and Regular Troops.

  15. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by notorious_eagle View Post
    Whats the point?
    NE, this is a "what if?" To explore the viability of a suggestion, I ask whether the company and battalion level officers can do the job independently, not necessarily a do or die, but effectively giving battle, including surrender, if only to force the front lines to stand guard (and thus reduce their effectiveness) and reduce the speed of their advance.

    There are a lot of theories being tossed around, which are viable and which are still borne, I don't know. Certainly, the von Manstein style of battle could not be accomplished without a von Manstein style of leader but what about others?

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