India and Pakistan in Kashmir border skirmish

[Doktor]

How many officers are present at same time in a HQ? Be it Brigade or Army HQ.

An honest question, nothing more, nothing less.

[bolo121]

AM after seeing the twists and turns you accomplish with such style and efficiency
I have to ask again, are you a lawyer by profession?

[Blademaster]

AM after seeing the twists and turns you accomplish with such style and efficiency
I have to ask again, are you a lawyer by profession?

Why is that important to you? Are you on a witchhunt or something?

[Agnostic Muslim]

AM after seeing the twists and turns you accomplish with such style and efficiency

What twists and turns would you be referring to?

I would like to know so I can attempt to clarify my point of view since 'twisting and turning' was not really my intention.

[lemontree]

IND76,

Lemontree's original statement is quoted up there, a statement that has no corroboration whatsoever and has been denied by three Pakistan Army officers that I have contacted.

(a) Sir, your credibility is already in question as you keep on ignoring the fact that in the Bandala raid your forward post was wiped out. This was something you brought up to show the IA in poor light. And when I gave you specifics you stated to duck and hide.

On top of that, Lemontree did in fact backtrack on his original statement (quoted above) as shown below:

(b) You seem to have a very "good" comprehension of the meaning of the word backtrack.
- I stand by my statement that the PA Inf Bde HQ was destoryed. I gave you a formation, PAs 15 Inf Div.
- I clarified that a Bde HQ has 7-8 officers, which is a fact, the other ranks that are present are for admin duties, on deputation from Inf or other arms as per their trade vacancy.

If you cannot comprehend that, then there is little that I can do.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but backtracking or caught lying/exaggerating, take your pick ..

Lying???.....exaggerating???....that is quite a statement from you, who has been lying and hiding when questioned with facts.
On the other hand you have been trying to sell a lie about IA's 70 Inf Bde HQ...but you are free to live in you puddle of imagined victories.

(c) My reputation in this forum in not based on lying and exaggerations, and I dont have to prove anything to you of all the people.

This is the last of my replies to you on this topic.

[bolo121]

What twists and turns would you be referring to?

I would like to know so I can attempt to clarify my point of view since 'twisting and turning' was not really my intention.

Sorry for the delay AM. As soon as a thread stops getting posts and not showing up on the new page I tend to lose track.

What I meant was the way you use the poster's own language and bend it to make him appear as unreliable and biased while obscuring the actual point under discussion.
This is pretty much what earns a lawyer his bread and butter.
I believe Tronic already called you on it in a different thread so I will end this distraction here.

[Agnostic Muslim]

What I meant was the way you use the poster's own language and bend it to make him appear as unreliable and biased while obscuring the actual point under discussion.
This is pretty much what earns a lawyer his bread and butter.
I believe Tronic already called you on it in a different thread so I will end this distraction here.

And as I pointed out to Tronic on the other thread, his allegation is unjustified.

[Agnostic Muslim]

(a) Sir, your credibility is already in question as you keep on ignoring the fact that in the Bandala raid your forward post was wiped out. This was something you brought up to show the IA in poor light. And when I gave you specifics you stated to duck and hide.

I addressed this with you already - I did not receive any information from the individuals I contacted regarding this claim of yours about the Bandala forward post, but I will ask again.

(b) You seem to have a very "good" comprehension of the meaning of the word backtrack.
- I stand by my statement that the PA Inf Bde HQ was destoryed. I gave you a formation, PAs 15 Inf Div.
- I clarified that a Bde HQ has 7-8 officers, which is a fact, the other ranks that are present are for admin duties, on deputation from Inf or other arms as per their trade vacancy.

You can keep 'standing by your statement', but there is absolutely no corroboration of your claims that a Pakistani Bdg HQ was destroyed.

Lying???.....exaggerating???....that is quite a statement from you, who has been lying and hiding when questioned with facts.
On the other hand you have been trying to sell a lie about IA's 70 Inf Bde HQ...but you are free to live in you puddle of imagined victories.

Yes, you are either lying or exaggerating - you certainly did not bother to point out the mutilations, beheadings and killing of Pakistani POW's by the Indian Army - you were forced into accepting that when I posted the first hand accounts of three Indian journalists who were embedded with the IA during Kargil.

And this is what I said earlier about the claim regarding the IA's 70 Inf Bde HQ, "your account of the 'destruction of a Pakistani BDE HQ' and the account by the gentleman I know of the 'destruction of the 70 Infantry Brigade' are not corroborated so far."

So given my statement above, on what basis are you accusing me of 'selling a lie about the IA's 70 Inf Bde HQ being destroyed'?

This is the last of my replies to you on this topic.

Whatever you wish - I'll be more than happy to respond if you change your mind :)

[Agnostic Muslim]

Interesting comments by MK Bhadrakumar, comparing the hysteria within India regarding the alleged Chinese incursion across the LAC with the hysteria over the beheading of Indian soldiers:

Our China-Pakistan punditry is a sham

They trooped out of the woodwork, our China experts, no sooner than the media reports appeared about the Chinese incursions into the territory we regard as ours in the Leh region. All sorts of theses are being expounded with a barely-hidden note of triumphalism that the remarkable achievements of Indian diplomacy in the recent period with regard to India’s relations with China could now be debunked as irrelevant or ridiculed as inconsequential or even derailed by the time Premier Li Keqiang arrives in Delhi.

In a way, it is a replay of the media hysteria whipped up vis-a-vis Pakistan a few months ago over the so-called LOC incidents. In both cases, there is paucity of information, to put it mildly, as to what exactly led to the ‘incidents’ involving these neighbouring countries.

Put differently, we simply do not know enough as to what has been the conduct of the Indian forces on our side of the LOC and the LoAC. Frankly, we know nothing.

We often lament that in Pakistan and China the armed forces and the security establishments are more influential than the foreign ministries on matters of national security. But is the matrix substantially different in our case?

We, average Indians outside of the government, only know what the neighbouring country did unto our country. It seems we are entitled to know only that much.

But on that basis, our moronic pundits and media anchormen decide to get indignant and vituperative and to rush to making bizarre judgments as to the motives of the other party.

Matters concerning relations with important neighbours such as Pakistan and China deserve a far better level of intellectual discussion. Most important, there should be intellectual honesty in such discussions.

It belittles India’s image in the world community if our discourses descend to such manifestly pedestrian and patently dishonest level as is presently happening.

The fact of the matter is that it is only the government which has a complete picture of what happened on the LOC or the LoAC. It only knows how the Indian forces’ conduct has been on our side of the LoC and the LoAC.

It only can answer the following: Have our forces too been straying into territories which the other party claims as theirs? Have we too in the past beheaded their soldiers and been head hunters? Have we too erected structures or located forward posts or flown helicopters or built air strips on the disputed land so as to derive unilateral advantage?

Most important, was any of that done as a matter of considered policy laid down from Delhi or was it a case of the macho men pushing the envelope?

These are key questions. Just about everything — when something ‘new’ happens on the LOC or the LoAC — depends on the answers to these questions.

In the meanwhile, it is improper to isolate a particular incident and insist that is where history begins. Of course, it is downright stupid to go berserk and begin to attribute motives to other side’s actions without being in a position to claim with certainty that those were precipitate actions which they carried out with ulterior motives.

Alas, what we have here instead are delusionary accounts. If this is the level at which China (or Pakistan) studies are conducted in our prestigious universities and think tanks, god only can help our motherland.

Not a single country in the world has articulated an opinion so far supportive of our grievance in Leh. Evidently, they know better. They know our punditry is a sham.

Our China-Pakistan punditry is a sham - Indian Punchline

[lemontree]

MK Bhadrakumar is free to have his views, even though they may be quite warped.

[Agnostic Muslim]

MK Bhadrakumar is free to have his views, even though they may be quite warped.

As are you, free to have your 'warped views' that is ...

[lemontree]

As are you, free to have your 'warped views' that is ...

No you would 'nt understand the meaning of "warped"....it is beyond you sir. Don't strain your mind too much.

[Agnostic Muslim]

No you would 'nt understand the meaning of "warped"....it is beyond you sir. Don't strain your mind too much.

I understand it enough to realize that merely dismissing an argument by calling it 'warped' suggests a lack of desire to 'strain ones mind' ...