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Fiscal Cliff Averted?

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  • Originally posted by tbm3fan View Post
    You have points other than your one constant and enduring one???
    Plenty of points. Always.

    -dale

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    • debt limit blackmail is ridculous Congress authorizes the spendng then demands it be cut???? We need fiscal reform not the threat of devestating our econmy by destrying our credit ratng and as with the last time costing us more in ncreased borrwing costs than saved wth cuts
      Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
      ~Ronald Reagan

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      • Pass a budget then. Let everyone see what you're spending money on.

        -dale

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        • Of course the truth is that the 'cliff' isn't really the problem anyway... the deficit is the real problem
          i wanted to address this point. a lot of people seem to misunderstand what the fiscal cliff (thank god for the next word) was.

          it was immediate, severe austerity.

          so if your POV is that the deficit is the "real problem" and the cause of the recession and is making it worse, why then you should absolutely have loved the fiscal cliff.
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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          • Originally posted by dalem View Post
            Pass a budget then. Let everyone see what you're spending money on.

            -dale
            actually budgets are nonbinding appropriations are how money is spent. The whole budget process is new yu knowthat right? we didnt have them for200 yrs. That said I think it's clear there will be a budget. If congress doesnt want to borrow money all they have to do is stop authorizing spending it. budgets dont spend money appropriations do
            Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
            ~Ronald Reagan

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
              actually budgets are nonbinding appropriations are how money is spent. The whole budget process is new yu knowthat right? we didnt have them for200 yrs. That said I think it's clear there will be a budget. If congress doesnt want to borrow money all they have to do is stop authorizing spending it. budgets dont spend money appropriations do
              Budgets are new? Whew! I hope the next Republican administration and Senate that doesn't pass one for 4 years of majority gets the same "who cares?" from you - that'll sure save a few pages of outrage.

              Wow. Budgets are new. I like that answer.

              -dale

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              • Originally posted by astralis View Post
                growth defined as minimal gains since the recession, yes. (and even this was not clear as of two quarters ago.) recovery? they haven't recovered to pre-recession standards, so hardly that.

                BTW, see how well austerity is doing even in cutting the UK's debt load.

                Austerity will raise UK's debt burden, warns Niesr - Telegraph
                You were right.
                Britain heading for triple-dip recession as GDP shrinks 0.3% in fourth quarter | Business | guardian.co.uk
                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                Leibniz

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                • i wanted to revive this dead thread on account of this blurb i posted.

                  i'm still amazed at how conservative Republicans effectively gave Obama a stronger bargaining hand not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES.

                  first was the healthcare debate, when conservatives decided to fight instead of compromise on the healthcare bill.
                  second was when obama negotiated with boehner in 2011 and put medicare cuts on the table...and the conservative republicans shot that down.
                  third was when just a few weeks ago when obama put social security cuts on the table...and the conservative republicans shot that down.
                  Ryan Lizza just did an excellent piece about Eric Cantor, House Majority Leader, and his vision for reviving the Republican Party.

                  Ryan Lizza: Can Eric Cantor Redeem the Republican Party and Himself? : The New Yorker

                  to me, though, what was most interesting was Cantor's role in wrecking the "Grand Bargain" discussions between Obama and Boehner. this was something which was widely discussed before, and a few people thought that this was merely hear-say.

                  well, in this interview he baldly admits it.

                  Cantor was one of the most influential political forces in Obama’s first term. In June of 2011, the President and the Speaker began working toward a Grand Bargain of major tax increases and spending cuts to address the government’s long-term budget deficits. Until late June, Boehner had managed to keep these talks secret from Cantor. On July 21st, Boehner paused in his discussions with Obama to talk to Cantor and outline the proposed deal. As Obama waited by the phone for a response from the Speaker, Cantor struck. Cantor told me that it was a “fair assessment” that he talked Boehner out of accepting Obama’s deal. He said he told Boehner that it would be better, instead, to take the issues of taxes and spending to the voters and “have it out” with the Democrats in the election. Why give Obama an enormous political victory, and potentially help him win reëlection, when they might be able to negotiate a more favorable deal with a new Republican President? Boehner told Obama there was no deal. Instead of a Grand Bargain, Cantor and the House Republicans made a grand bet.
                  considering that the Grand Bargain that Obama and Boehner was considering was considerably to the right of anything that has been even remotely considered afterwards-- i'm surprised Cantor's kept his job. he made a grand bet and he lost it all.
                  There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                  Comment


                  • Surprise, surprise. GOPers reject President’s 2016/17 budget

                    It surprised me that I couldn't find a more current discussion of the US budget, but that's probably because the deficit has become a non-issue.


                    The GOPer-controlled House this week broke with the long tradition of paying lip service to bipartisan support for national interests, by denying the head of the Office of Management of the Budget the opportunity to even present the Administration’s proposals.

                    If they had heard from the OMB, they would have had to respond to proposals to address climate change, expand healthcare and … reduce the 2016/17 budget deficit by 18%.

                    That’s on top of the 69.9% reduction between when Mr Obama took office in 2009 and the end of the 2015 fiscal year. See: CBO.gov for the data.

                    How did that happen? +148.7% rise in corporate tax revenue, +68.3% rise in individual tax revenue and -11.3% spending on defense had a lot to do with it. Oh, and the increased revenues was from robust economic growth – the stuff that cut unemployment by the fastest, steepest measure since WWII – not from Congress suddenly calling off their strike and going back to business.

                    How will that happen? The CBO is counting on legislative changes already in place to continue, and in the process slash $343 billion from revenues in 2015-19, and a further $82 billion in 2020-2024. Did I mention that corporate tax revenues would be two-thirds of the “savings,” and individual only one-third?

                    And, let’s not forget increased spending of $143 billion and $181 billion, respectively. That’s the work of GOPer House “fiscal conservatives,” of course.

                    Among the other 2016 proposals the GOPers don’t want to hear about is an 8% increase in spending on veterans, 4% more for transportation and 1% less for general government spending, which last year was 4.5% lower than in 2008.

                    Business as usual ...
                    Trust me?
                    I'm an economist!

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