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  • Fiscal Cliff Averted?

    So, a deal has been reached in the Senate and will most likely pass. There are no guarantees it will pass the house, but if the Senate passes a deal it will put pressure on them to vote for it. I guess the question is over how many (if any) Democrats refuse to vote for it & how many votes Boehner can round up to get it over the line.

    Lets hope this gets done.

    The White House and Senate leaders reached a bipartisan compromise on the fiscal cliff that would allow tax rates to rise on income over $450,000 and delay steep automatic federal spending cuts for two months.

    The Senate was poised to vote on the package some time after the clock turned to 2013 on New Year’s morning, and the House could vote later in the day on Jan. 1.

    The final deal was hammered out between Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Vice President Joe Biden, after nearly two months of talks between other leaders failed. President Barack Obama called Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) Monday night, and a Democratic source said both leaders signed off on the package.

    But there were indications that might have slightly overstated the case: A Senate Democratic aide insisted that Reid simply offered to give Biden a chance to sell Senate Democrats on the accord, as the vice president did at a 90-minute meeting at the Capitol. And Pelosi, in a statement issued shortly after 10 p.m., did not endorse or criticize the pact: the California Democrat said she was waiting for the Senate to act and then would present it to House Democrats to gauge their reaction.

    Criticism came from all quarters, though it was unclear whether it represented a serious threat to the accord’s prospects in Congress or the kind of complaints that were bound to precede such a difficult vote. Moderate Senate Democrats like Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) said the deal “kicked the can down the road” by failing to include entitlement reform. Liberals such as Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) complained that Obama and Biden gave away too much on taxes.

    There was also a tactical divide between Senate Democrats and the White House. Many Hill Democrats believed they would get a much better deal if they waited until the new year and the country went over the fiscal cliff, but Obama did not want to risk blame for potentially pushing the United States back into a recession.

    Biden was enlisted to help sell the package to a skeptical caucus. Still, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) said while Democrats have reservations, most agreed the deal is better than going over the cliff. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) called the mood in the caucus “somber.”

    Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) said he’s “not happy but it’s preventing an increase of tax rates for middle income Americans, and that’s very good.”

    Leaving the caucus meeting, Biden said he felt “very good” about the deal’s chances, warning reporters not to predict how the House or Senate would vote.

    In a statement, House Speaker John Boehner promised to consider the Senate bill, but would not say whether the chamber would try to amend or simply accept it. He said that decision would be made after members have a chance to review the legislation.

    The final sticking point was over delaying the across-the-board spending cuts slated to begin Jan. 2 known as the sequester. Those cuts will be replaced in equal parts by fresh government revenues and other targeted spending reductions.

    A Senate vote on the package was expected early Tuesday morning. House sources have said they almost certainly will have to wait until later Tuesday to vote.
    Read more: Fiscal cliff deal reached - POLITICO.com
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    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  • #2
    Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
    So, a deal has been reached in the Senate and will most likely pass. There are no guarantees it will pass the house, but if the Senate passes a deal it will put pressure on them to vote for it. I guess the question is over how many (if any) Democrats refuse to vote for it & how many votes Boehner can round up to get it over the line.

    Lets hope this gets done.



    Read more: Fiscal cliff deal reached - POLITICO.com
    If the Republicans want to stay in office, they'll pass it. Never mind that it has a wildly disproportionate amount of spending cuts to increased tax dollars.

    I really hate how Obama is handling this. Instead of acting like a leader and actually trying to solve the country's problems, he is trying to score political points by embarrassing the Republicans at any turn he can. What a guy.
    "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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    • #3
      Originally posted by leib10 View Post
      If the Republicans want to stay in office, they'll pass it. Never mind that it has a wildly disproportionate amount of spending cuts to increased tax dollars.

      I really hate how Obama is handling this. Instead of acting like a leader and actually trying to solve the country's problems, he is trying to score political points by embarrassing the Republicans at any turn he can. What a guy.
      Turnabout... The republicans have been long painting Obama as an ineffective leader when Obama went to them offering them compromises and the Republicans would slap him silly and demand more concessions.

      I do not blame Obama for doing this the way he is doing now because he has no choice and no other viable methods. The Republicans want all or nothing which is not a good way of governance. If you want to criticize Obama, then criticize Republicans for forcing Obama into this position in the first place. Obama offered a better deal last year and the Republicans, being too greedy and thinking that they could take the White House, slapped him down.

      I would have less respect for Obama if he took a more conciliatory tone towards the Republicans. The Republicans needed to be taught a lesson and that when the President comes calling and offers concessions, you better take him seriously and not take him for a ride.

      So what Obama did was re-establishing the primacy of the Presidential office and sending a strong message to the Republicans that he is no pushover.

      Kudos to Obama.

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      • #4
        I really hate how Obama is handling this. Instead of acting like a leader and actually trying to solve the country's problems, he is trying to score political points by embarrassing the Republicans at any turn he can. What a guy.
        considering how much the left is screeching about how obama is Conceder-in-Chief once again, i don't think he's trying to "score political points" here. if he were, he would have gone right over the fiscal cliff-- that would have been a political winner for dems. the public was ready to blame Republicans for going over the cliff; Obama gets all his tax increases and could then paint Republicans as trying to block him from doing a tax cut for the middle class.

        i'm still amazed at how conservative Republicans effectively gave Obama a stronger bargaining hand not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES.

        first was the healthcare debate, when conservatives decided to fight instead of compromise on the healthcare bill.
        second was when obama negotiated with boehner in 2011 and put medicare cuts on the table...and the conservative republicans shot that down.
        third was when just a few weeks ago when obama put social security cuts on the table...and the conservative republicans shot that down.

        now they have nothing to show for it, i suppose, other than preventing tax increases from going up on folks in the 250K-400/450K range.

        and hell, i haven't even gotten into the whole messy primary fracas which put up the likes of everyone from bachmann to cain to perry as the very public representatives of the Republican Party.

        you'd think getting routed three times would be an object lesson to the GOP or to any thinking conservative. i suppose in a way it HAS-- the Tea Party's decided to take a page from the OWS idiots and disappear.
        Last edited by astralis; 01 Jan 13,, 17:44.
        There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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        • #5
          on the personally positive side, i guess i need not fear unpaid furlough anymore...
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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          • #6
            Originally posted by astralis View Post
            the Tea Party's decided to take a page from the OWS idiots and disappear.
            Not based on their phone calls to me and my wallet. :)

            -dale

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            • #7
              Politicians, cancer and mass murderers - which is worse?

              These evil scum live high on the backs of the US taxpayer, with benifits the average American has trouble imagining- becoming millionares in about 10 yrs on 5 figure salararies... 70 some paid days off, and no compuction to show up for work the rest of the time - then this showboating about working on a holiday? Woopie ding - they belong in prison for taking bribes, wage fraud, treason and all manor of vile things that they do - living above the law, with lavish stolen perks and no concern for America.
              sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
              If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                So, a deal has been reached in the Senate and will most likely pass. There are no guarantees it will pass the house, but if the Senate passes a deal it will put pressure on them to vote for it. I guess the question is over how many (if any) Democrats refuse to vote for it & how many votes Boehner can round up to get it over the line.

                Lets hope this gets done.



                Read more: Fiscal cliff deal reached - POLITICO.com
                This deal will go through but is effectively meaningless. It's simply set up the stage for the next debt ceiling negotiations. I'm unaware of just how much revenue the new taxes will take in but I doubt it will delay reaching that ceiling by much, perhaps a few days at best. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they get a credit downgrade.
                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                Leibniz

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by leib10 View Post
                  If the Republicans want to stay in office, they'll pass it. Never mind that it has a wildly disproportionate amount of spending cuts to increased tax dollars.

                  I really hate how Obama is handling this. Instead of acting like a leader and actually trying to solve the country's problems, he is trying to score political points by embarrassing the Republicans at any turn he can. What a guy.
                  I seem to recall Obama offering a deal a year or two ago where there were $9 of spending cuts for every $1 of tax rises. GOP fanatics knocked it back because of the tax rises. Guess they figured they would be able to get a better deal when Obama lost the election. Wrong bet (I think this is the first time I've quoted jean Claude Van Damme! ;)). They gambled & lost. Now they have to suck it up. Even then they managed to save those poor struggling folks on $250,000-$250,000 from a 3% tax rise (phew! homeless shelters were gearing up). As Astralis pointed out, there have been other opportunities to cut better deals but the fanatical wing of the GOP have scuppered them. If you want to get upset at someone you might want to start with those people in the GOP who have continually knocked back better deals. They have given Obama the whip hand & now want to whine when he uses it. Even then he has made concessions...and still they whine. Republicans have embarrassed themselves.
                  sigpic

                  Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                  • #10
                    The whole congress embarrasses us - they have a 900$ pay raise coming? I wonder why they "worked" today - it couldn't be that could it?
                    sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                      This deal will go through but is effectively meaningless. It's simply set up the stage for the next debt ceiling negotiations. I'm unaware of just how much revenue the new taxes will take in but I doubt it will delay reaching that ceiling by much, perhaps a few days at best. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they get a credit downgrade.
                      The article I read said 60 billion per year in "new" revenue from soaking people who work hard to pay for all the free stuff. A pittance.

                      But it's what people voted for so they should be happy.

                      -dale

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dalem View Post
                        But it's what people voted for so they should be happy.

                        -dale
                        Yep. A vote for partisan gridlock and runaway spending. Fun times ahead.
                        In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                        Leibniz

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                          Yep. A vote for partisan gridlock and runaway spending. Fun times ahead.
                          Yeah, well, fuck 'em. Folks are going to get exactly what they deserve. :)

                          -dale

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yep. A vote for partisan gridlock and runaway spending. Fun times ahead.
                            feh, as if it would have been different under Mitt Romney.

                            the irony is that Republicans like Marco Rubio are now using the very cuts that they once championed as political fodder to attack obama, lol.
                            There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

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                            • #15
                              House Republicans oppose the deal......this is getting interesting.

                              Cliff deal hits a new snag with House Republicans - The Washington Post

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