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Thread: Indian government seeks life sentences for Delhi bus rapists

  1. #46
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    If those poor women had concealed handguns, things might be different.

    I know, this ^^ is grossly inappropriate, trying to tie gun control laws into a desperately sad situation, but when I think of the potential for violence against the women I love in my family, I would want them to be able to shoot an attacker in the balls. Then in the head. Problem solved, no trial needed.
    The government has shown that it is entirely incapable of providing defence to the people from threats outside and inside.
    Pakistan and China have control on Land that Government claims as India's (dont know why they claim these lands?). Terrorists from Pakistan waltz into India and kill people, this ball-less government pleads to Pakistan for action against the terrorists, while wasting money on stupid nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers to fight wars that are not possible now.

    The police force ratio to the population is so damn sad that hope of defence from the police or justice from the courts is a fanciful idea.

    Yes i agree with you. the people must arm themselves, i think with or without government permission, if the criminals walk around with weapons and what have you, no reason the public should not shoot back with one.
    cheers

  2. #47
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    May the brave girl rest in peace. She was a fighter and I hope the Indian youth carry on her fight to bring positive change to the country.



    (NDTV is acting like a government stooge though, so just ignore those totally meaningless quotes on the left side of the screen by India's greasy politicians. If they really cared, things wouldn't be where they are today. It's all a farce to placate the anger. Government's main goal is to extinguish the anger, rather than to fix this problem for good.)
    Last edited by Tronic; 29 Dec 12, at 22:52.
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  3. #48
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    If those poor women had concealed handguns, things might be different.

    I know, this ^^ is grossly inappropriate, trying to tie gun control laws into a desperately sad situation, but when I think of the potential for violence against the women I love in my family, I would want them to be able to shoot an attacker in the balls. Then in the head. Problem solved, no trial needed.
    Don't wish to turn this into a guns debate, but your point goes both ways. Punjab is probably the most armed developed state in India, and it hasn't meant a safer society. You are simply pumping more tools in society for people to kill each other with. Guns don't discriminate between good guys and bad guys.

    Akali leader arrested for shooting dead Punjab cop trying to protect daughter


    AMRITSAR: Punjab Police on Thursday arrested a local Shiromani Akali Dal leader Ranjit Singh Rana in connection with the murder of a police officer, who had opposed his daughter's harassment by the politician and his associates.

    Rana, general secretary of the Akali Dal's local unit, is alleged to have shot assistant sub-inspector (ASI) Ravinderpal Singh in full public view in Amritsar's Chehertha locality on Wednesday.
    ....
    Akali leader arrested for shooting dead Punjab cop trying to protect daughter - Times Of India
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  4. #49
    A Self Important Senior Contributor troung's Avatar
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    Indian police charge 6 men with murder in gang-rape case after victim dies in hospital
    By Ashok Sharma, The Associated Press | Associated Press – 1 hr 33 mins ago
    Indian police charge 6 men with murder in gang-rape case after victim dies in hospital - Yahoo! News

    NEW DELHI - Indian police have charged six men with murder, adding to accusations that they beat and gang-raped a woman on a New Delhi bus two weeks ago in a case that shocked the country.

    The murder charges were laid Saturday after the woman died earlier in the day in a Singapore hospital, where she had been flown for treatment.

    New Delhi police spokesman Rajan Bhagat said the six face the death penalty if convicted, in a case that has triggered protests across India for greater protection for women from sexual violence, and raised questions about lax attitudes by police toward sexual crimes.

    The tragedy has forced India to confront the reality that sexually assaulted women are often blamed for the crime, forcing them to keep quiet and discouraging them from reporting it to authorities for fear of exposing their families to ridicule. Police often refuse to accept complaints from those who are courageous enough to report the rapes, and the rare prosecutions that reach courts drag on for years.

    Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said he was aware of the emotions the attack has stirred, adding it was up to all Indians to ensure that the young woman's death will not have been in vain.

    The victim "passed away peacefully" early Saturday at Mount Elizabeth hospital in Singapore with her family and officials of the Indian Embassy by her side, Dr. Kevin Loh, the chief executive of the hospital, said in a statement.

    After 10 days at a hospital in New Delhi, the Indian capital, the woman was brought Thursday to Mount Elizabeth, which specializes in multi-organ transplants. Loh said the woman had been in extremely critical condition since Thursday, and by late Friday her condition had taken a turn for the worse, with her vital signs deteriorating.

    "Despite all efforts by a team of eight specialists in Mount Elizabeth hospital to keep her stable, her condition continued to deteriorate over these two days," Loh said.

    The woman and a male friend, who have not been identified, were on a bus in New Delhi after watching a film on the evening of Dec. 16 when they were attacked by six men who raped her. The men beat the couple and inserted an iron rod into the woman's body, resulting in severe organ damage. Both were then stripped and thrown off the bus, according to police.

    As news of the victim's death reached New Delhi on Saturday, hundreds of policemen sealed off the high-security India Gate area, where the seat of India's government is located, in anticipation of more protests.

    The area is home to the president's palace, the prime minister's office and key defence, external affairs and home ministries, and has been the scene of battles between protesters and police for days after the attack.

    Police were allowing people to assemble at the Jantar Mantar and Ramlila grounds, the main areas allotted for protests in New Delhi, Bhagat said.

    Mourners gathered at Jantar Mantar to express their grief and demand stronger protection for women and the death penalty for rape, which is now punishable by a maximum of life imprisonment. Women face daily harassment across India, ranging from catcalls on the streets, groping and touching in public transport to rape.

    They put a wreath studded with white flowers on the road, lit a candle and sat around it in a silent tribute to the young woman. Members of a theatre group nearby played small tambourines and sang songs urging Indian society to wake up and end discrimination against women.

    Dipali, a working woman who uses one name, said the rape victim deserved justice. "I hope it never happens again to any girl," she said.

    Dozens of students of Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi marched silently to the bus stop from where the rape victim and her friend had boarded the bus on Dec. 16. They carried placards reading "She is not with us but her story must awaken us."

    Sonia Gandhi, the governing Congress party chief, assured the protesters in a statement that the rape victim's death "deepens our determination to battle the pervasive, the shameful social attitudes and mindset that allow men to rape and molest women and girls with such an impunity."

    The protesters heckled Sheila Dikshit, the top elected leader of New Delhi state, when she came to express her sympathy with them and forced her to leave the protest venue. They blamed her for the deteriorating law and order situation in the capital.

    Meenakshi Ganguly, South Asia director of Human Rights Watch, said the woman's death was a sobering reminder of the widespread sexual violence in India.

    "The outrage now should lead to law reform that criminalizes all forms of sexual assault, strengthens mechanisms for implementation and accountability, so that the victims are not blamed and humiliated," Ganguly said.

    Prime Minister Singh said he understood the angry reaction to the attack and that he hoped all Indians would work together to make appropriate changes.

    "These are perfectly understandable reactions from a young India and an India that genuinely desires change," Singh said in a statement. "It would be a true homage to her memory if we are able to channel these emotions and energies into a constructive course of action."

    Mamta Sharma, head of the state-run National Commission for Women, said the "time has come for strict laws" to stop violence against women. "The society has to change its mindset to end crimes against women," she said.

    Indian attitudes toward rape are so entrenched that even politicians and opinion makers have often suggested that women should not go out at night or wear clothes that might be seen as provocative.

    Separately, authorities in Punjab state took action Thursday when an 18-year-old woman killed herself by drinking poison a month after she told police she was gang-raped.


    State authorities suspended one police officer and fired two others on accusations they delayed investigating and taking action in the case. The three accused in the rape were arrested only on Thursday night, a month after the crime was reported.

    "This is a very sensitive crime, I have taken it very seriously," said Paramjit Singh Gill, a top police officer in the city of Patiala.

    The Press Trust of India reported that the woman was raped Nov. 13 and reported the attack to police Nov. 27. But police harassed the girl, asked her embarrassing questions and took no action against the accused, PTI reported, citing police sources.

    ___

    Associated Press writers Heather Tan and Faris Mokhtar in Singapore and Ravi Nessman in New Delhi contributed to this report.
    How India treats its women
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-20863860


    People have called her Braveheart, Fearless and India's Daughter, among other things, and sent up a billion prayers for a speedy recovery.

    When the unidentified woman died in a Singapore hospital early on Saturday, the victim of a savage rape on a moving bus in the capital, Delhi, it was time again, many said, to ask: why does India treat its women so badly?

    Female foetuses are aborted and baby girls killed after birth, leading to an an appallingly skewed sex ratio. Many of those who survive face discrimination, prejudice, violence and neglect all their lives, as single or married women.

    TrustLaw, a news service run by Thomson Reuters, has ranked India as the worst country in which to be a woman. This in the country where the leader of the ruling party, the speaker of the lower house of parliament, at least three chief ministers, and a number of sports and business icons are women. It is also a country where a generation of newly empowered young women are going out to work in larger numbers than ever before.

    But crimes against women are rising too.

    With more than 24,000 reported cases in 2011, rape registered a 9.2% rise over the previous year. More than half (54.7%) of the victims were aged between 18 and 30. Most disturbingly, according to police records, the offenders were known to their victims in more than 94% of the cases. Neighbours accounted for a third of the offenders, while parents and other relatives were also involved. Delhi accounted for over 17% of the total number of rape cases in the country.

    And it is not rape alone. Police records from 2011 show kidnappings and abductions of women were up 19.4%, women being killed in disputes over dowry payments by 2.7%, torture by 5.4%, molestation by 5.8% and trafficking by an alarming 122% over the previous year.

    The Nobel Prize-winning economist Amartya Sen has estimated that more than 100m women are "missing" worldwide - women who would have been around had they received similar healthcare, medicine and nutrition as men.

    New research by economists Siwan Anderson and Debraj Ray estimates that in India, more than 2m women are missing in a given year.

    The economists found that roughly 12% of the missing women disappear at birth, 25% die in childhood, 18% at the reproductive ages, and 45% at older ages.

    They found that women died more from "injuries" in a given year than while giving birth - injuries, they say, "appear to be indicator of violence against women".

    Deaths from fire-related incidents, they say, is a major cause - each year more than 100,000 women are killed by fires in India. The researchers say many cases could be linked to demands over a dowry leading to women being set on fire. Research also found a large number of women died of heart diseases.

    These findings point to life-long neglect of women in India. It also proves that a strong preference for sons over daughters - leading to sex selective abortions - is just part of the story.

    Clearly, many Indian women face threats to life at every stage - violence, inadequate healthcare, inequality, neglect, bad diet, lack of attention to personal health and well-being.

    Analysts say deep-rooted changes in social attitudes are needed to make India's women more accepted and secure. There is deeply entrenched patriarchy and widespread misogyny in vast swathes of the country, especially in the north. And the state has been found wanting in its protection of women.

    Angry citizens believe that politicians, including Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, are being disingenuous when they promise to toughen laws and speed up the prosecution of rapists and perpetrators of crime against women.

    How else, they ask, can political parties in the last five years have fielded candidates for state elections that included 27 candidates who declared they had been charged with rape?

    How, they say, can politicians be believed when there are six elected state legislators who have charges of rape against them?

    But the renewed protests in Delhi after the woman's death hold out some hope. Has her death come as an inflexion point in India's history, which will force the government to enact tougher laws and people to begin seriously thinking about the neglect of women?

    It's early days yet, but one hopes these are the first stirrings of change.
    Last edited by troung; 30 Dec 12, at 05:54.
    To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

  5. #50
    Officer of Engineers
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    Troung,

    This is not true. Nine times out of ten, even in India and Pakistan, fathers love their daughters ... and brothers will kill for their sisters ... and nine times out of ten, the families found good husbands for their daughters.

  6. #51
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chogy View Post
    If those poor women had concealed handguns, things might be different.

    I know, this ^^ is grossly inappropriate, trying to tie gun control laws into a desperately sad situation, but when I think of the potential for violence against the women I love in my family, I would want them to be able to shoot an attacker in the balls. Then in the head. Problem solved, no trial needed.
    Yes it is. There are two open threads for you post NRA slogans but you just have to use this tragedy too. Worse, you know its the wrong thing to do but just can't help yourself. I honestly had a higher opinion of you Chogy. You can do better. You know it, I know it.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Yes it is. There are two open threads for you post NRA slogans but you just have to use this tragedy too. Worse, you know its the wrong thing to do but just can't help yourself. I honestly had a higher opinion of you Chogy. You can do better. You know it, I know it.
    He has daughters. I have a daughter. You don't have children. This is not about legality. This is about fathers who have enough knowledge to make the perps pay and pay dearly ... and the state would be damned to convict them.

  8. #53
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    He has daughters. I have a daughter. You don't have children. This is not about legality. This is about fathers who have enough knowledge to make the perps pay and pay dearly ... and the state would be damned to convict them.
    I'm not going to argue about this. he knows he did wrong & he doesn't need you to make his excuses for him.


    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    I'm not going to argue about this. he knows he did wrong & he doesn't need you to make his excuses for him.
    We ARE NOT MAKING EXCUSES! WE ARE NOT EVEN DISCUSSING RIGHT NOR WRONG. WE ARE SAYING THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN FATHERS WHO WILL TAKE MATTERS INTO THEIR OWN HANDS! AND THE LAW AND STATE BE DAMNED!

  10. #55
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    We all know there is a better way till the moment we get affected.

    Humans are nothing but animals, and in 99.9% of the cases their reaction will be revenge.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  11. #56
    Idiot Mode [ON] OFF Senior Contributor YellowFever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Yes it is. There are two open threads for you post NRA slogans but you just have to use this tragedy too. Worse, you know its the wrong thing to do but just can't help yourself. I honestly had a higher opinion of you Chogy. You can do better. You know it, I know it.
    Come on, BF...

    Chogy knew this wasn't the place but he felt strong enough about it to post what was on his mind even though he knew it was inappropriate. He was not posting his "NRA slogans" and he was not "using" this tragedy for any other purpose other than to state his feelings about the matter.

    I mean really, after all the solid and informative things Chogy has posted over the years, this one post by him, which he admitted was inappropriate and looked to be something said out of passion....really left you with a lower opinion of him than before?

    Really?


    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    I'm not going to argue about this......
    And why not?

    You commented on it and now you don't want to argue about it?

    It works both ways, man.

    Yes, what Chogy said was inappropriate for this thread.

    Your response was also inappropriate
    Last edited by YellowFever; 30 Dec 12, at 09:15.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    May the brave girl rest in peace. She was a fighter and I hope the Indian youth carry on her fight to bring positive change to the country.

    (NDTV is acting like a government stooge though, so just ignore those totally meaningless quotes on the left side of the screen by India's greasy politicians. If they really cared, things wouldn't be where they are today. It's all a farce to placate the anger. Government's main goal is to extinguish the anger, rather than to fix this problem for good.)
    No wonder it has earned the nickname Nehru Dynasty Television. Its not even secret anymore.
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'...till you can find a rock. ;)

  13. #58
    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    The argument of owning a gun for personal self-defense has been duly noted. Clearly, neither disrespect nor diversion was intended.

    Moving on, I encourage everyone to remain faithful to the spirit of this thread born of tragedy.

  14. #59
    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    Rape Victim Is Cremated in India

    Airport security sources said the plane arrived from Singapore in the cargo area of Indira Gandhi International Airport at 4:15 a.m. Sunday and that the body was whisked away through the old domestic terminal. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi, president of the governing Congress party, received the body along with senior police officials amid growing public pressure on the government machinery. The 23-year-old victim was cremated at a private ceremony in southwest New Delhi, the local news media reported. In attendance at the ceremony, which was closed to the news media, were family, friends and a handful of politicians. There was heavy police deployment during the funeral.
    Source: NYTimes

    Rest in Blessed Peace

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    If the justice does not hand out the death penalty due to human rights or civilized people argument bullshit, I am advocating for an armed overthrow and forcible reform of the judiciary system and I won't be labeled as a rebel or traitor but as a patriot. My first act is to hang or jail all the justices who let rapists and acid throwers off the hook easily and hang all the lawyers who have corrupted the system ala Shakespeare style.
    The cause for most evils are mushrooming slums and and the delinquents who live there....they are the vote banks of each and every political party.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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