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Thread: Indian government seeks life sentences for Delhi bus rapists

  1. #16
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kato View Post
    I'm not really clear on the entire meaning of a challan in the Indian judicial system either, but I suspect in the end it's rather similar to the German Strafbefehl (punishment order). Except a Strafbefehl is limited to minor crimes with a maximum sentence of less than one year, and can't be used for felonies.
    A challan simply means a ticketed offence. For example, you'll get challaned for not wearing a seat belt, talking on the phone while driving, blasting music in the middle of the night, etc.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
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  2. #17
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    That can't be correct, Hitesh. I don't doubt your observation that there are sloths in the system but India is not an anarchy country. You're doing business with the outside world and they have to have faith in your laws to work there
    It is a semi-anarchy. If you're rich, or are politically connected, you can consider yourself a bit above the law. Less than a month ago, a girl in Amritsar, Punjab was continually harassed by a bunch of thugs as she traveled to her college. She let her father know, who happened to be a Police officer (an Assistant Sub-Inspector). The next day he accompanied his daughter to her college in his full service uniform. When the thugs again attempted to harass her, he confronted them. They shot him several times in full public view with a handgun, and as he lay there bleeding, the main culprit ran to his nearby home, brought back a fully loaded rifle, and shot him again to death. This happened in broad daylight and in full public view. The two men arrested both turned out to be student leaders of the ruling political party.

    When the rich and powerful get convicted, it is only due to public anger, otherwise, they easily grease enough hands to make sure the law never reaches them. The main culprit here is India's judicial system, where even a murder case takes more than a decade to put through trial. This way, enough time is granted to the culprits to threaten or manipulate through corruption, the witnesses, police, judges, or anyone else connected to the case.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
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  3. #18
    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    The city of New Delhi has been placed in lock-down and four subway stations near the government district have been closed. Demonstrations have also occurred in Mumbai, Bangalore, Meerut, Kanpur, and Lucknow. Delhi Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit said the capital has approved five fast-track courts to try the rape cases. In an interview she added that she “hates Delhi being called 'rape capital,' but it has indeed become one.”

    From what I have learned in the last few days, the Indian system of law and jurisprudence is biased and dysfunctional. The deficiencies are especially glaring in regards to crimes of a sexual nature. Culturally, India remains a country that favors sons. Unlike most modern western countries where the gender ratio favors women, the opposite holds true in India. Researchers ruminate that this gender inversion is due to a male-first mindset, which results in female infanticide, female suicide, and female murder. Between 1990 and 2008, reported rape cases doubled in India. Women’s groups however, say the real figures are far higher given social stigma and police corruption and indifference. There are now over 1000 rape cases awaiting judicial adjudication in New Delhi alone. Due to police corruption, judicial bribery, and defense stalling techniques, it takes 8-10 years to bring a rape case to trial. In the interrum, the victim is harassed and threatened with further violence. In addition, much depends on the social status of the perpetrators and the victims. The wealthy and powerful can kill and rape with relative impunity. It is alleged that the only reason the recent gang-rape and mutilation was solved so quickly is because the perpetrators all hail from a low socio-economic strata.

    Quite frankly, I am dumbfounded and sickened at these revelations. I hope the government of India realizes that its international image has been tarnished considerably, and invokes whatever measures are necessaryto remedy this appalling situation.

  4. #19
    Military Enthusiast Senior Contributor
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    Minksaya,

    The Indian Judicial system needs to be drastically overhauled but those standing in the way are justices, including Supreme Court justices and lawyers. They are a law and society unto themselves without any accountability. They have extremely poor docket management and allow lawyers to get away with hysterics and tantrums and frivolous arguments that drag out cases to no end. I was witness to one when I accompanied a friend of mine who is a lawyer to one of the hearings and based on that hearing along, I was disgusted with the way how judges manage their cases.

    Go to New York Times and read the article on Indian Supreme Court. Look at the size of the number of justices and the cases they deal out with. It shows an astonishingly lack of faith in the judicial system in India.

  5. #20
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
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    Cut their balls, castrate them and make that public.
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  6. #21
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    There was a scene in the movie Fear and Loathing, the judge banged the gavel and pronounced the sentance: castration, thought a moment, banged the gaval once more and cried: DOUBLE CASTRATION! Chopping a coconut in half on the bench.

    They need a quintiulpe castration. Both balls and all three legs.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  7. #22
    Liberté, Unité, Egalité Senior Contributor Tronic's Avatar
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    Biggest issue with the Indian judicial system is a lack of capacity. Indian law per se is not biased against women, in fact, it is actually heavily tilted in favour of women; however, the tendency to drag on cases over decades makes a farce out of the entire judicial system. Justice delayed is justice denied. Although in India's case, even justice delayed is taken as a huge relief, considering the high possibility of the criminals tampering the judicial process, through corruption and intimidation, and walking off scot free.

    Hitesh, docket management is not the problem here. The processing time in court is actually quite small. The problem is the lack of capacity to resolve such cases. Take a look at this:


    The High Court in New Delhi is so behind in its work that it could take up to 466 years to clear the enormous backlog, the court's chief justice said in a damning report that illustrates the decrepitude of India's judicial system.

    The Delhi High Court races through each case in an average of four minutes and 55 seconds but still has tens of thousands of cases pending, including upward of 600 that are more than 20 years old, according to the report.

    The problems of the Delhi High Court, which hears civil, criminal, and constitutional cases, is more the standard than the exception in India. The country's creaky judicial system has long been plagued by corruption, inefficiency and lack of accountability, often making the rule of law unattainable for all but the wealthy and the well-connected.

    The United Nations Development Program says some 20 million legal cases are pending in India.

    "It's a completely collapsed system," said Prashant Bhushan, a well-known lawyer in New Delhi. "This country only lives under the illusion that there is a judicial system."

    One reason for the delays is that there aren't enough sitting judges. India — a country of 1.1 billion people — has approximately 11 judges for every million people compared with roughly 110 per million in the United States. India's Justice Ministry last year called for an increase of 50 judges per million people by 2013, but it was unclear how the government would pay for such a massive overhaul.

    The Delhi High Court, the state's top court, had 32 judges in 2007 and 2008 instead of the allotted 48, according to the chief justice's annual report, released Tuesday.

    The court had at least 629 civil cases and 17 criminal cases pending that were more than 20 years old as of March 2008. Although, that's an improvement from April 2007 when the court had 882 civil and 428 criminal cases pending that were that old.

    Chief Justice A.P. Shah said in the report that "it would take the court approximately 466 years" to clear the pending 2,300 criminal appeals cases alone.

    Critics say another major problem is corruption, a plague throughout every layer of Indian government.

    'Corruption is commonplace'

    "Of course corruption is there," said J.S. Verma, a retired Supreme Court justice. "The people who man the courts and the court system come from the society" where corruption is commonplace.

    Last year, the Delhi High Court convicted two senior lawyers for trying to influence a key witness to change his testimony in a high-profile case involving a hit-and-run that left six people dead. The lawyers, who were busted in a sting by a television news channel, received what some called a light punishment: They were barred from appearing in court for four months and fined 2,000 rupees ($50).

    The corruption in the case was only notable because one of the lawyers had defended important political figures, said Bhushan
    "There are plenty of lawyers who are engaged in this business of bribing judges," he said. "It's a lucrative business."

    The hit-and-run case was another example of the long lag between crime and conviction: the accident occurred in 1999, but the driver was not found guilty until 2008.

    Critics say other problems include the strict formalities that slow down every step of the legal process and are common across India's vast bureaucracy.

    Bhushan says the Herculean task of simply registering a case wastes time and denies ordinary citizens access to the court.

    "All kinds of objections are raised — the copies are dim, the margins are not wide enough, it's single-spaced instead of being double-spaced," he said. "For a layperson, it's impossible."

    Verma, the retired Supreme Court judge, said extending working hours would be a major step toward clearing the backlog.

    The Delhi High Court hears cases for five hours and 15 minutes a day, and is open for 213 working days a year, according to the report. Verma and others said the court could easily work longer hours.

    "A commitment and proper work culture can solve at least half the problems, if not more," Verma said. "I don't think you would have to wait four centuries to have a case decided."
    Last edited by Tronic; 24 Dec 12, at 09:15.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
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  8. #23
    Senior Contributor kuku's Avatar
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    With the economy and population that we have, an adequate legal system is out of reach for us, just like the required police forces, the required medical system, required welfare system, the required education system or the required municipal system.
    The current legal system is ineffective and wasteful, just like every other institution of the Government of India, and the work culture is lazy and bureaucratic.
    We are a poor nation with a very huge population, and a work culture of inefficiency that spreads across Government and Private sector.
    People should remember that they are talking about a nation that can not provide its citizens with clean drinking water (even when it spends the money to supply clean drinking water).

    The poor girl was a victim of monsters, and they need to be put down, they displayed inhuman cruelty and made every effort to end the girls life, there is no reason for letting them live in a jail and later on released back into the society, their cruelty has proven them incapable of living among humans

    This anger on the streets is not just because of this tragedy, for a while now papers and news has been filled on a daily basis with horrible sexual crimes against women. The anger is justified, if the treatment of 50% of our population is so wrong then there is something very evil about our society and culture.

    I do not see a way out of this mess...
    cheers

  9. #24
    In Memoriam Military Professional Minskaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuku View Post
    I do not see a way out of this mess...
    Just to be clear, it was never my intention in this thread to cast aspersions on India. I salute the people of India for shouting out... enough is enough! You see, I know the story all too well. Corruption is rampant at every level in my homelands of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus. It saddens me greatly when I hear of other countries that also suffer from this insidious affliction. Godspeed in all efforts to rehabilitate your judicial system.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    If not life then lock them up until they are too old to ever even have sex again. Chemical castration works for me too. Anyone who ever doubted that rape is about power, dominance & often violence this is a useful reminder. The call for the death penalty strikes me as running the risk of unintended consequences. If you are going to be executed for rape then there is dramatically more incentive to kill off the person best placed to testify against you.
    F' chemical castration. Do it the old fashioned way.

  11. #26
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    Gang-rape accused thrashed by Tihar jail inmates

    While Tihar Jail officials have refuted reports that Mukesh was beaten up and forced to drink his own urine and eat excreta, sources said the incident did happen at the prison.
    Well I certainly hope it did happen.

  12. #27
    Military Professional Deltacamelately's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
    Gang-rape accused thrashed by Tihar jail inmates


    Well I certainly hope it did happen.
    Guess those inmates lacked choppers, knives, blades...heck even teeth.
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  13. #28
    كافر Military Professional silentsam's Avatar
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    Life is too easy. Hang them all in the public square.
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  14. #29
    hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronic View Post
    It is a semi-anarchy.
    I was about to post refuting your point of India being a semi-anarchy but stopped midway when I saw how Delhi Police (Or Dynasty Police) treated young protestors with an Iron hand. They lathi charged unarmed protestors with a vengeance. They did not even spare young girls! .There was no mercy. I wonder if the Delhi Police know that the British left in 1947 and they are working for their own kind now? It is a semi-anarchy or worse.
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'...till you can find a rock. ;)

  15. #30
    hammer's Avatar
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    Unconfirmed reports say that the girl passed away. She is no more. RIP!
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!'...till you can find a rock. ;)

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