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Thread: 27 dead in Newtown school shooting

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Survivor's guilt. None of us did anything to stop this. As misplaced as some of these suggestions are, it makes us feel better that we could have done something. The reality is there was nothing any of us could have done. Voting in gun duties for teachers (bad, bad, bad idea) would not have stopped this fuck just as armed gangsters did not stop drive by shootings.
    Why can't we create some sort of controlled entry where you can invite guests and people but only at your choosing. Such as an effective wall that looks friendly but effective at corralling people into controlled access and rigging school areas with cameras and outsourcing the outside perimeter patrolling & security to security companies that can set up remote camera monitoring centers and a permanent stationing of a full time police officer with full authority to detain anybody not complying with the rules of the school areas and screening at access points. Sure it will be expensive, but I am getting sick and tired of hearing fucking whackos coming into school with complete ease and killing innocents. If you want to protect gun rights, then shut the fuck up and pay the bill. You can't have it both ways.

  2. #32
    Officer of Engineers
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    I have absolutely no say in American policies. What I am doing is explaining survivor's guilt.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Sure it will be expensive, but I am getting sick and tired of hearing fucking whackos coming into school with complete ease and killing innocents. If you want to protect gun rights, then shut the fuck up and pay the bill. You can't have it both ways.
    I'm afraid that you will still hear whackos no matter what you do. McVeigh and the 11 Sept hijackers did not use firearms. This fuck had access to cars as well as firearms.

  4. #34
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    I hear the (non gun loving) folks around me outraged and talking about guns being as available as groceries, mandatory registration of guns, not selling guns to just anybody etc.

    I share their sense of outrage, shock and grief but not their logic, as I also realize that these guns were legally bought by the perp's mother, which he stole. There would have been the background check, the waiting period or whatever. None of that stopped this guy. Same for the Clackaas mall shooting, the perp stole someone's AR-15.

    Having said that I still feel that we should at least have an open conversation in this country on how we can stop people with mental illnesses and violent tendencies to get firearms.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Why can't we create some sort of controlled entry where you can invite guests and people but only at your choosing. Such as an effective wall that looks friendly but effective at corralling people into controlled access and rigging school areas with cameras and outsourcing the outside perimeter patrolling & security to security companies that can set up remote camera monitoring centers and a permanent stationing of a full time police officer with full authority to detain anybody not complying with the rules of the school areas and screening at access points. Sure it will be expensive, but I am getting sick and tired of hearing fucking whackos coming into school with complete ease and killing innocents. If you want to protect gun rights, then shut the fuck up and pay the bill. You can't have it both ways.
    The school was protected by an intercom system and locked gates. The guy broke in. There was nothing that could have stopped this guy short of a well trained, well armed, and brave guard.

    Many American high schools have one or two police officers stationed on campus for education, outreach, as well as security. Some inner city high schools even have metal detectors and weapon screening areas to prevent students from being armed. However, this is not true of elementary schools as no one had conceived of someone walking into a school and murdering a bunch of kids.

    Is this a gun ownership problem? Well, people blaming this tragedy on gun ownership will have to explain how Switzerland manages to have 1/5 our per capita murder rate with legally mandated 100 percent household assault weapon ownership.

    In that vein this article might be interesting:

    Eric Michael Johnson: On the Origin of American Gun Violence

    http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/safety/
    Last edited by citanon; 15 Dec 12, at 22:47.

  6. #36
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    It appears that is almost impossible in the aftermath of a major incident to talk about gun violence in the US without being accused of politicizing a tragedy. There are sickos everywhere. As it turned out there was a school attack in China yesterday as well. The only difference was that the perpetrator managed to kill no one as he only had a knife.

    I think there are far too many guns in circulation the US for any meaningful gun control to work. I think the only solution now is to consider the US like a place where a domestic terror attack (like these shootings) can occur at anytime; think Israel or even Iraq and act accordingly. This means gated communities, armed guards and high surveillance and security measures in schools, malls etc.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
    Survivor's guilt. None of us did anything to stop this. As misplaced as some of these suggestions are, it makes us feel better that we could have done something. The reality is there was nothing any of us could have done. Voting in gun duties for teachers (bad, bad, bad idea) would not have stopped this fuck just as armed gangsters did not stop drive by shootings.
    Different classes of people. By and large when these cretins pick a shooting gallery full of unarmed people, as soon as the cops show up they kill themselves. They are cowards. Putting more sheep dogs in to guard the lambs won't stop these nut jobs it will deter them to other soft targets. But adults are generally better able to respond and exercise self care. As this event shows, passive hardening will only go so far, the shooter shot his way in in the building.

    The solution is one of cost. The most expensive solution is a cop in every school. The next most expensive is to harden the class rooms (doors with out windows that open out not in with kick resistant frames and locks). The cheapest solution is to follow the air marshal approach and find a few key teachers or administrators who pass the checks and evals who can be trusted to carry in class- hidden like an air marshal. Everyone knows they are there, but not who it is. You pay them a little bit extra, but less than the price of a cop and their only mission besides teaching is active shooter situations- not law enforcement.

    The dead principal would have been a good candidate- unarmed and facing a nightmare she attacked against impossible odds. Why she attacked will never be proven but I think its a safe bet it because it she knew her next to zero chance was better than any students and she had a sheep dog heart. Hell even tazers, in the confines of the class room I think tazers might have enough range.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by InExile View Post
    It appears that is almost impossible in the aftermath of a major incident to talk about gun violence in the US without being accused of politicizing a tragedy. There are sickos everywhere. As it turned out there was a school attack in China yesterday as well. The only difference was that the perpetrator managed to kill no one as he only had a knife.
    Except in the previous several attacks a bunch of kids and adults were killed with knives, and hammers.....

    Children stabbed in attack at Chinese school - Yahoo! News

  9. #39
    In Memoriam/Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

    "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

    ...It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
    people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

    CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

    You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.
    I can't attest to whether Morgan Freeman said this or not - but I felt it was worth repeating
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  10. #40
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    I don't think he's far off about the news coverage.
    Newswipe with Charlie Brooker News Clip - YouTube

    I noticed that CNN seems almost desperate to capture the most poignant moment, as though the tragedy it self isn't big enough, it needs that dramatic touch.
    Last edited by Ironbar; 16 Dec 12, at 05:56.

  11. #41
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    Rest in peace. My prayers and feelings for the parents, children and all others affected.
    And on the sixth day, God created the Field Artillery...

  12. #42
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    They called the media yellow journalism when it promoted wars - like the Spanish American War.
    That was a different time and perhaps the publishers honestly believed they were patriotic Americans.

    What should we call it now that it promotes mass murders of children?

    Clearly profiting from the suffering of others has long been their bread and butter.
    Does anyone believe they're doing a service by showing this monster's picture and telling his disgusting story? "Rating" his crime so someone else can top it?
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by citanon View Post
    Except in the previous several attacks a bunch of kids and adults were killed with knives, and hammers.....

    Children stabbed in attack at Chinese school - Yahoo! News
    I agree that Knives can kill too. But someone with a semi automatic is much more likely to kill more before being stopped or overpowered.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minskaya View Post
    From what I understand the school was locked and the perpetrator gained entrance by shooting out the foyer glass. The administrative office is right by the entrance, and he was confronted almost immediately. Someone apparently had the presence of mind to turn on the school intercom system. The shouting and shots could be heard in every classroom. This quick-thinking act of courage saved countless lives.
    Foyer glass at the entrance is too friendly. Locking a door, but having foyer glass, well, just cancels each other out.

  15. #45
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    There are no good solutions. Of the top of my head, I can think of 10 ways to do this without firearms. I'm not going to write it down since I don't want to give anyone any ideas but all you're doing is shifting the killing from one place to another. From one set of victims to another ... and it could be very well kids too.

    This fuck is deranged. He just chose firearms. He can easily chose something else and no, not a knife.

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