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Boeing's Chinook Wins Indian Heavy Copter Fight

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Monash View Post
    Then only reason I thought there might be a "subtext" this decsion is that it comes as such a surprise given the large number of Russian helicopters purchased by India in the past and their (generally) satisfactory performance in Indian hands. If there is one area of the aerospace industry where Russia can be said to be genuinely competative with the West it's helicopters. Their products in this area have a good a reputation in tersm of ruggedness and reliablility at a competative price. So this decsion surprized me slightly and I figured there had to be a political message being sent as well. The Russians have managed to stuff up several recent Indian projects so maybe India's patience is wearing thin.
    Monash, majority of India's helicopters are locally produced French Allouette's and Indian designs (Dhruv series). Mi-17s probably come next, forming the backbone of IAF's and the army's heli-medium lifts. They will continue to serve that role, as India has already ordered around 80 Mi-17V5s, with a possible follow on order for 59 more.

    This specific order was for heavy lift choppers, and given that both the Chinook and the Mi-26 passed the ASQR, it's probably not a surprise that Chinook would be cheaper to operate than hauling around in a much larger Mi-26, when a Chinook can do the same job. (It doesn't make economic sense flying around a half loaded Mi-26). If even heavier loads are required, than we still have the Mi-26s already in service. These choppers are not their replacement, AFAIK.

    I think the political angle in Indian defence deals is overblown. If a political statement had to be made, a very strong one could've been made with the MMRCA, but it's the military which decides, not the government. This has been the major shift from the past.
    Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
    -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tronic View Post
      Monash, majority of India's helicopters are locally produced French Allouette's and Indian designs (Dhruv series). Mi-17s probably come next, forming the backbone of IAF's and the army's heli-medium lifts. They will continue to serve that role, as India has already ordered around 80 Mi-17V5s, with a possible follow on order for 59 more.
      Tronic, the Allouette's and Lama's are mainly for arty Air OP/ recce. The Lama's are used for some very high alititute areas as the Mi-17 don't reach up there.
      The Mi-8/17 are the IAFs work horses. The Mi-26 capabilities are huge but the maintenance is a nightmare. It was also under-utilized and mostly used as an air crane for defence and other public sector industrial units.

      We had just one Mi-26, so the Chinooks are replacing the Mi-26 and not augumenting it.

      This specific order was for heavy lift choppers, and given that both the Chinook and the Mi-26 passed the ASQR, it's probably not a surprise that Chinook would be cheaper to operate than hauling around in a much larger Mi-26, when a Chinook can do the same job. (It doesn't make economic sense flying around a half loaded Mi-26). If even heavier loads are required, than we still have the Mi-26s already in service.
      You are right that the Mi-26 was under utilised, but also because at times 75% of the fleet was grounded due to maintenance. For ouverhauling the choppers needed to be sent to Russia.

      Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by lemontree View Post
        Tronic, the Allouette's and Lama's are mainly for arty Air OP/ recce. The Lama's are used for some very high alititute areas as the Mi-17 don't reach up there.
        Captain, I know. I was contesting the point about Russian choppers in Indian service. The Allouettes, Lamas and Dhruvs greatly outnumber the Russian choppers 2:1. If we take into account the induction of the Rudra, LOH, and other Dhruv variants (~114 LCH have also been ordered and awaiting delivery), that ratio only grows larger.

        Point being, I don't believe that buying these Chinooks is some major shift away from Russia. The Russians only have a presence in the medium lift category of helis in Indian service, and with Army Aviation ordering more Mi-17V5s, the Russians are keeping whatever share they had. They haven't really lost any territory to the Americans in this respect.


        We had just one Mi-26, so the Chinooks are replacing the Mi-26 and not augumenting it.

        You are right that the Mi-26 was under utilised, but also because at times 75% of the fleet was grounded due to maintenance. For ouverhauling the choppers needed to be sent to Russia.
        LT, we had 4. One crashed in December '10, so now we're left with 3.

        And you're right the Chinooks will replace the Mi-26. And yep, that's my point. It's not a surprise to see the Chinook win, since the Mi-26 just wasn't making economic sense in it's defined role.
        Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
        -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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